The journey to myself

[Tinwen]

I didn't even realise you weren't a native speaker lol

I use Grammarly browser extension a lot

 

[Tinwen]

I wrote a really depressed post yesterday and deleted it. Let me blog about something more fun and more poly! I wanted to write about this in August, but the kids' debate was going on, so I didn't, so here you go.

I had a really out-of-this-world rope session.

I had been deeply involved with shibari community before, but in the past few years my bdsm preferences have changed to the point where I was no longer sure I'm even into it. As I started working in another city, I decided to see the local shibari place and went to a jam. At the end, I approached the most gentle rigger in the room - I just liked how he built up his floor work, no suspension, lots of attention. In my masochistic past, I might have found his style boring, because he's not pushing limits, but I decided to give it a try.

We struggled to find a time to meet for a very long time (I wasn't in the city where I work all that much, and I cancelled once for illness), but he didn't give up on me, and we finally met end of July three time - once for a walk, and twice for tying.

The first time meeting for ropes I was quite nervous, excited too, but as soon as we started I was able to let go and experience a feeling of happiness and safety. Not just that - I touched profound and surprising depth. For a moment at least, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind, I was feeling pure bliss. It was one of those moments no words can capture.
When we untied I noticed I was still in a meditative-like state of altered consciousness, when thoughts are minimal and colors are more colorful
I was very lucky the rigger handled this well.

The second session was "just a normal session", no extraordinary state of consciousness, but still very nice. I'm happy to have found someone who can be trusted. He also happens to teach physics (at a different uni!), which is a fun coincidence since I really chose him without any conversation at all.
He's married with kids and much older, so no, I'm not taking that to any deep relationship-y level. Time and health don't permit it anyway, with me being ill almost non-stop for the past two months we haven't managed to meet again Sigh.

I spent some time wondering how a peak experience like this came about. It wasn't the riggers skill, this was about me, although he contributed greatly with his caring attitude.
I haven't tied with many men (I'm kind of a monogamish exception in the community), haven't had a rope relationship besides Idealist, but some of the short one-off sessions I did? I've had extraordinary experiences. So there is something about the quality of trust I can give for the first time. A profoundly true illusion.
Also, there's something I've heard a tantric teacher say to someone who experienced blissful states of mind in meditation: they don't last, because they are a reward for work done. I think to approach someone I had to overcome a personal limitation, and this was my reward.

This experience was important to me. It has confirmed that, while I don't desire the combination of excitement and pain as much as I did, I'm still into rope. The memory has faded quite a bit already, but I still want to cherish it and add it to my 'golden collection' of altered states of mind.

 

[Tinwen]

To keep the positive tone, ChatGPT (or another AI, I'm sure) is being really a huge help with coding. Basic text-file handling and graph creation? It can be trusted to write code that just works. I can't say the same about my own tries , but when I do write something? It will correct my syntax.
I will even be able to correctly apply non-trivial concepts. Like that time my few lines of code ran fine in the command line, but failed as soon as I put them into a text file and ran them as a script. It told me the script is being run in a subshell and I have to load the right module (something like this). I wouldn't know how to google such a thing!

Learning IT was always so fucking frustrating for me that it became an insurmountable obstacle. I didn't get any good basics from anywhere and I didn't know how to overcome the problems I encountered. Having AI to consult is really a huge relief.

 

[Tinwen]

I'd love for positive posts to get as many replies as the negative and controversial ones, but that isn't how the world works, anyway, feel free to

 

[Tinwen]

I ended up in hospital with pneumonia - I need oxygen, but it seems I'll be fine, hopefully now I get the right antibiotics.

Somehow it seems I immediately got myself a reputation for being the trouble-maker here. One staff member told me outright that they are careful about me, and others do seem irritated. I'm not exactly sure what I did. Yes, I'm sensitive and don't take discomfort all that easily, but aren't people? Yes, I ask everything, but am I not supposed to when it's my health? Am I just doomed by having "scientist" as a job title?
Maybe there's something on top of it, like a level of politeness I am missing or something? That's something I could work on for the sake of seemless relating, but I can't really tell, so I can't fix it It triggers feelings of worthlessness.

 

[Evie]

Ask that forthright one what's the problem?

 

[Tinwen]

Ask that forthright one what's the problem?

Maybe? If the same guy is around for more days. They change a lot.
I did manage to exchange a few lines of conversation with him later. He was mocking me that too many questions make people sick (or maybe he meant it?) and I should be dumb. [I hope I swallowed all expression of how much I feel that as in insult at this point.] I told him I want to know about everything, but then I remembered I do completely dumb on politics and told him too. He told me some convoluted idea of progress on his way through the door. So there was an exchange - probably the only non-technical small talk I had with any staff member - so maybe I could ask how I earned my reputation if he feels talkative again.

But getting a reputation literally overnight? Wow.

 

[Tinwen]

Today's staff is much more professional. Or less overwhelmed.
I think it was more about the reality of hospitals, where the nurse runs from saving lives to making tea.

 

[MeeraReed]

I've often had problems with people deciding I'm "difficult" based on one interaction where I had a good reason to be irritable or irritated, and while I thought I was making a good effort to be patient and polite and considerate.

Maybe it's my tone of voice that annoys people?

I know how you feel, anyway.

 

[Tinwen]

Happy new year!

 

[Tinwen]

I have been reading this thread and I decided to NOT write what I'm about to write to this particular poster, although I do feel that the advice she's been given might be a little one-sided. But I'm getting it out on paper.

I do sometimes find that on this forum the standards on people you date are quite high.
Your partner is not attuned to your emotions? You deserve better, break up. You two are not on the same page regarding relationship style? Don't compromise, break up. As a result, it does tend to condemn every mono-poly relationship as not joyfully-consensual enough. Is that a good thing? I don't know.

From my experience with polyamory, I don't recommend it to nearly anyone anymore due to the decreased life-flexibility in comparison to a couple or couple-centric arrangement. If I were to start over, I would want choose someone who's got an understanding of alternative relationship styles but a monogamous preference. Pure monogamy ... even after my rather not-so-great experience with the V, it feels so imprisoning to never be able to experience NRE or sleep with a another person again. I didn't do it anyway, at least the second part of it (I've had one or two quite intense crushes over the years), so I maybe I should just call it quits and accept that I'm monogamous. Yet the ability to, occasionally, flirt and touch and sometimes tie with others feels so... alive. It's just I can't seem to fit another relationship into my life, both time- and commitment-wise and emotionally, and I'm sure as hell not terribly happy that my partner does have another significant relationship.

I have been told to break up with my partner so many times, both here and in real life. Reasons? 1. polyamory, 2. many people find him selfish and/or difficult to deal with, which I can't deny. He's thrown under the bus from this forum if I describe one of our fights in the relationship corner.
People notice his problems, because they are in plain sight, and overlook that he's also gentle and honest and capable (and, of course, unusually intelligent). Short, while I'm acutely (and yes, sometimes painfully) aware of his problems, they just haven't been able to drive me away, and neither has been polyamory.

This experience of people telling me over and over that I have chosen wrong has been incredibly painful at times. It causes me to doubt myself and my judgement. Am I staying out of abandonment and self-esteem issues? Is there something pathological about loving this man? Does it mean there's something wrong with me, and even - if I feel, or felt for a long time, that leaving wold break me - am I already broken beyond repair for feeling this way? I still don't know the answer.

Should I have broken up years ago? Maybe. Probably.
Am I breaking up right now? Hell no. I'm almost 36 and I have a partner who stuck with me through depression and illness and who's is willing to have a child with me now. Not gonna try my luck in the hunt.

While every outside voice just amplifies my own inner doubts, it would probably be easier to be happy with my choice if it was not questioned from the outside all the time.

So, while the theory says that true consent is joyful consent, and it's great to have such a theory, what I really believe is that the reality of life is messy.
I state (not in every case, there are degrees to everything!), that telling a person that their own well-thought out decision to adopt a lifestyle that is not their first choice is not joyful enough is taking away their agency.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have been reading this thread and I decided to NOT write what I'm about to write to this particular poster, although I do feel that the advice she's been given might be a little one-sided.

I'm pretty invested in that thread, so I'd be curious to hear specifically what the "sides" are that you refer to. And I wonder what you thought of my advice and GG's advice (since we've been the main responders), what we've said that is incorrect, in your eyes.

I do sometimes find that on this forum the standards on people you date are quite high. Your partner is not attuned to your emotions? You deserve better, break up.

Really? In all the hundreds of threads I've participated in, and the thousands of older threads I've read, I have never seen this stated so bluntly, or even implied. In fact, depending on the lack of attunement, the overriding attitude is to talk things out, clearly and honestly, and get closer to being on the same page, if possible.

You two are not on the same page regarding relationship style? Don't compromise, break up.

Do you mean style, as in poly as opposed to monogamy? Or different models of poly, such as triads vs Vs, or parallel as opposed to KTP or garden-party?

I again think that thorough communication, sometimes including therapy, is the most recommended strategy. And compromises are always needed, in any relationship, with a weighing of options, sensitivity to love languages, reassurance through talking, romantic dates, taking your time educating yourselves before opening a mono relationship, never coercing or abusing each other, etc.

I am not sure where you're getting the idea that our advice here is so black and white, and/or monolithic.

As a result, it does tend to condemn every mono-poly relationship as not joyfully-consensual enough. Is that a good thing? I don't know.

I can speak to this, since my partner Pixi's OSO, Malachi, has been functionally mono (like you) since the beginning of their 9-yr relationship. He is free to date, but has chosen not to, being introverted. In this, he is like our regular member, Meera Reed, who was in a mono/poly relationship for even longer, and for pretty much the same reason. I don't recall anyone ever telling Meera to break up with her ex. She decided to break up when he moved another, much newer partner into his house, and things all went sideways, NRE-crazy, with too many drug-fueled parties involved, etc.

Mono/poly isn't healthy when the poly partner demands the other partner be mono for their own (the poly partner's) comfort, out of a lack of seeing the hypocrisy, or laziness in (not) wanting to face the feelings that might arise when their partner decides to date another (especially an other with a god-almighty penis).

From my experience with polyamory, I don't recommend it to nearly anyone anymore, due to the decreased life-flexibility in comparison to a couple or couple-centric arrangement. If I were to start over, I would want to choose someone who's got an understanding of alternative relationship styles, but a monogamous preference. Pure monogamy ... even after my rather not-so-great experience with the V, it feels so imprisoning to never be able to experience NRE or sleep with a another person again. I didn't do it anyway, at least the second part of it (I've had one or two quite intense crushes over the years), so I maybe I should just call it quits and accept that I'm monogamous. Yet the ability to, occasionally, flirt and touch and sometimes tie with others feels so... alive. It's just I can't seem to fit another relationship into my life, both time- and commitment-wise, and emotionally, and I'm sure as hell not terribly happy that my partner does have another significant relationship.

I have been told to break up with my partner so many times, both here and in real life. Reasons? 1. polyamory, 2. many people find him selfish and/or difficult to deal with, which I can't deny. He's thrown under the bus from this forum if I describe one of our fights in the relationship corner.

Hmm... I don't recall any of these threads about fights where the prevailing advice was to break up. I recall you being honest about your own misgivings, them having a kid, your meta's jealousy/envy of you, your conflicts about your PhD/career exhaustion, and so on. It's nuanced. I feel that advice given here is generally pretty nuanced and tailored to the specifics of the OP's concerns, which are assessed through the asking of thorough searching questions.

If anyone here ever just immediately blanket-advised you to break up, I don't recall it. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm sure you remember the details better than I do. Certainly it was years ago. Now I want to look it up on Relationships and see what was said.

Maybe you're referring to other places you've posted (perhaps Reddit, which I understand is much more rigid and condemnatory), or in conversations with friends or family irl.

People notice his problems, because they are in plain sight, and overlook that he's also gentle and honest and capable (and, of course, unusually intelligent). Short, while I'm acutely (and yes, sometimes painfully) aware of his problems, they just haven't been able to drive me away, and neither has been polyamory.

This experience of people telling me over and over that I have chosen wrong has been incredibly painful at times. It causes me to doubt myself and my judgement. Am I staying out of abandonment and self-esteem issues? Is there something pathological about loving this man? Does it mean there's something wrong with me, and even - if I feel, or felt for a long time, that leaving would break me-- am I already broken beyond repair for feeling this way? I still don't know the answer.

Those are good questions to ask, and since you don't know the answers yourself, surely no one else can say.

I certainly wouldn't relish the idea of you "breaking," either from staying or leaving. Isn't it an old Chinese saying to be more like a willow than an oak tree, to bend instead of break?

Should I have broken up years ago? Maybe. Probably.
Am I breaking up right now? Hell no. I'm almost 36 and I have a partner who stuck with me through depression and illness and who's is willing to have a child with me now. Not gonna try my luck in the hunt.

Understandable! I don't recall you mentioning seriously wanting to TTC. Is that in the cards soon?

While every outside voice just amplifies my own inner doubts, it would probably be easier to be happy with my choice if it was not questioned from the outside all the time.

"All the time?" That's another black and white blanket statement that I gently suggest may not be accurate. I certainly respect the choice you made. I think maybe your family doesn't approve of your arrangement, though... Correct me if I'm wrong. I have dated some Asians (immigrants or second generation, Vietnamese, Korean, Indian), and out of all people I've dated (and there have been a lot), their cultural expectations were the least aligned with polyamory. (But that's just what I came up against.) (And I've learned things from media, books, movies, etc., from different Asian cultures.)

So, while the theory says that true consent is joyful consent, and it's great to have such a theory, what I really believe is that the reality of life is messy.
I state (not in every case, there are degrees to everything!), that telling a person that their own well-thought out decision to adopt a lifestyle that is not their first choice is not joyful enough is taking away their agency.

No one can take away your agency. You are an adult and get to choose how to go, and live with the consequences of your choices. I wasn't entirely happy in my mono marriage, but I lived with it until I basically got smarter, braver, and stronger, and outgrew and ended it.

I am not saying you aren't smart, brave, strong, etc. You love your guy, and I can see he's worth the investment and compromises to you. I'm sorry you're struggling and not as joyful as you'd like. I didn't really start to truly understand myself until I hit my 40s... That seems to be a turning point for many women.

 

[Tinwen]

I'm pretty invested in that thread, so I'd be curious to hear specifically what the "sides" are that you refer to. And I wonder what you thought of my advice and GG's advice (since we've been the main responders), what we've said that is incorrect, in your eyes.

Hey, I don't want to make judgements on "corectness"! You do you.
Did I hit a nerve?
I do appreciate your contributions to the forum greatly.

The thread, I wasn't reading as thoroughly as to commit to memory who said what. I remember Galagirl writing somewhere in there that the husband was not up to standards, which I did not feel there was enough info to conclude.

It's just a thread that brought my dilemma back to me, as well as an overall impression I get here sometimes. This is my blog, so I can be biased and inaccurate and fail to provide proof

Really? In all the hundreds of threads I've participated in, and the thousands of older threads I've read, I have never seen this stated so bluntly, or even implied. In fact, depending on the lack of attunement, the overriding attitude is to talk things out, clearly and honestly, and get closer to being on the same page, if possible.

Do you mean style, as in poly as opposed to monogamy? Or different models of poly, such as triads vs Vs, or parallel as opposed to KTP or garden-party?

I again think that thorough communication, sometimes including therapy, is the most recommended strategy. And compromises are always needed, in any relationship, with a weighing of options, sensitivity to love languages, reassurance through talking, romantic dates, taking your time educating yourselves before opening a mono relationship, never coercing or abusing each other, etc.

I am not sure where you're getting the idea that our advice here is so black and white, and/or monolithic.

I'm not actually saying forum advice is monolithic, just tending a direction.

It's the overall impression, consistent throughout many other threads, that this forum is a fan of 'separate is good'. This is my reading.
And look, I admire Galagirl, I truly do. If I was to compile a list of people who influenced me, she would be on it. But she does suggest separation in nearly every thread she comments on, so she's a big part of the impression. She does also give a ton of other great advice.
I'm sure she also recommended breakup to me, though, again, I don't deny there might be biased reading and biased memory.

I've touched it in several different places over the years. It might be forum bias, poly-culture bias, me being biased the other way, or even a Europe-America culture difference.

If anyone here ever just immediately blanket-advised you to break up, I don't recall it. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm sure you remember the details better than I do. Certainly it was years ago. Now I want to look it up on Relationships and see what was said.

Ugh, I don't want to go look up those old threads. They bring up emotions.
I know everybody meant well and there were golden nuggets of advice.
There were one or two that spiraled out of control by some people making assumptions (but I know exactly which people and it wasn't you, don't worry ).

I'm just thinking twice about putting a story there again. I will think: Do I need my negative emotion acknowledged, reflected back and amplified, or do I need a different kind of support? Usually, it's the later, and usually, I look for support in myself because people around me including the forum tend to do the former.

Understandable! I don't recall you mentioning seriously wanting to TTC. Is that in the cards soon?

Thanks. It actually means a lot for someone to join the voice that says "understandable" instead of ... some of the other voices in my head, which at this point are just me being too harsh with myself and my partner.

"All the time?" That's another black and white blanket statement that I gently suggest may not be accurate. I certainly respect the choice you made. I think maybe your family doesn't approve of your arrangement, though... Correct me if I'm wrong. I have dated some Asians (immigrants or second generation, Vietnamese, Korean, Indian), and out of all people I've dated (and there have been a lot), their cultural expectations were the least aligned with polyamory. (But that's just what I came up against.) (And I've learned things from media, books, movies, etc., from different Asian cultures.)

Well, ok, even if it's once every few months it feels like "all the time" and "everyone", because it has been - over the years - many of the people who are important to me. My friends tend to find him problematic. I asked Meta whether she's having the same issue. She said she didn't. She must be choosing a different type of people as friends.

My family has learned to keep their mouths shut nowadays.
Luckily no-one is Asian O

No one can take away your agency. You are an adult and get to choose how to go, and live with the consequences of your choices.

Yeah, sure.
But if you form an opinion that someone else should [insert big decision], while they aren't doing it, you're doubting their judgement and abilities.
Also, it's just so hard to face and dispute clear opinions if your inner state is one of doubt (which, in my case, is often).

But I totally also sometimes have a strong opinion on the stories. Just expressed one in another thread.

I wasn't entirely happy in my mono marriage, but I lived with it until I basically got smarter, braver, and stronger, and outgrew and ended it.

I am not saying you aren't smart, brave, strong, etc. You love your guy, and I can see he's worth the investment and compromises to you. I'm sorry you're struggling and not as joyful as you'd like. I didn't really start to truly understand myself until I hit my 40s... That seems to be a turning point for many women.

Who knows

 

[MeeraReed]

I'm pretty invested in that thread, so I'd be curious to hear specifically what the "sides" are that you refer to. And I wonder what you thought of my advice and GG's advice (since we've been the main responders), what we've said that is incorrect, in your eyes.

I actually get what Tinwen means here, and I just added a comment to Rachelina's thread with a slightly different slant than the previous advice.

I am not sure where you're getting the idea that our advice here is so black and white, and/or monolithic.

I've definitely felt like I am seeing more threads where it seems like the people involved should definitely break up. I have found myself giving such advice a couple times lately where I thought later, Huh, maybe I was too harsh and blunt.

And I've noticed a trend here lately where it seems like we give more advice encouraging the mono partner to leave rather than try to be poly. Maybe that's the right advice and maybe it's a good trend; but it does seem different than before, where we would encourage the mono partner to try examining their mono conditioning first.

Actually, just this last week, we (me included) were encouraging a mono guy to stand firm against his bi poly wife dating other men (when she'd said she only wanted women at first), but within two days he started another thread admitting he had fantasies about his wife being with other guys, so he was in fact open to it!

I can speak to this, since my partner Pixi's OSO, Malachi, has been functionally mono (like you) since the beginning of their 9-yr relationship. He is free to date, but has chosen not to, being introverted. In this, he is like our regular member, Meera Reed, who was in a mono/poly relationship for even longer, and for pretty much the same reason. I don't recall anyone ever telling Meera to break up with her ex. She decided to break up when he moved another, much newer partner into his house, and things all went sideways, NRE-crazy, with too many drug-fueled parties involved, etc.

Haha, it's funny you mentioned me because I was going to comment anyway! That is indeed an accurate summary of what happened with me and Eli. Although I didn't actually think of it as a mono/poly relationship. I was effectively mono for 12 years, but I considered myself poly, just poly-saturated at one partner. Or just too busy to date others. Or, sometimes, wanting a second partner but unable to find one, or to find time to invest in the search.

Now I've been with a mono guy for a year, who is in fact MORE introverted than me, and it's convinced that I am, in fact, quite poly Actually, things with Rick seem to ending now...I need to start a blog here, I think!

Hmm... I don't recall any of these threads about fights where the prevailing advice was to break up. I recall you being honest about your own misgivings, them having a kid, your meta's jealousy/envy of you, your conflicts about your PhD/career exhaustion, and so on. It's nuanced. I feel that advice given here is generally pretty nuanced and tailored to the specifics of the OP's concerns, which are assessed through the asking of thorough searching questions.

I think I know what Tinwen means...I recall a thread, or possibly Tinwen's comments on someone else's thread, where it sounded like Tinwen was considering breaking up with her partner. I recall telling her about how relieved I felt after leaving Eli and that Tinwen could similarly find a better life if she wanted. Is that the kind of thing you mean, Tinwen?

My apologies if it wasn't the right advice for your situation.

 

[MeeraReed]

Actually, Tinwen, your partner sounds very similar in many ways to my ex Eli. That's what I came here to say. I totally get what you mean about having a relationship that people in your life were always skeptical about, and that no one's advice fits your situation.

I loved Eli deeply for 12 years and I don't regret any of my time with him. I probably could have left him at the 10-year mark, when he bought a house and created a party lifestyle that excluded me, but I don't regret staying longer because the next 2 years were what I needed to be sure things couldn't be fixed or changed. The tipping point was definitely his crazy NRE situation, but that was short-lasting, and the underlying problems were still there after she dramatically exited his life.

Eli is extroverted, generous, caring, fun-loving, sensual, arrogant, confrontational, talkative, and the most amazing man in the world. He is also profoundly selfish--a quality that I actually like about him. He puts himself first and encourages everyone else to ALSO put themselves first. He taught me to be more selfish, which was a GOOD thing because I did too much for other people. He thinks everyone deserves to have what they want and he will help his loved ones get what they want out of life.

Except if it clashes with what he wants. He does not believe in compromise at all; but he also doesn't understand why that has resulted in him losing his only life partner (me).

I mention this because many people in my life were always puzzled by what I saw in Eli. He is the opposite of me. I was profoundly happy with him for a decade, so I never truly needed advice about him, but sometimes if I mentioned a minor complaint, my friends were quick to express horror at what I was "putting up with." I learned to never mention his poly relationships to my friends, even positively, because they would assume Eli was awful and treating me badly.

I always planned to be more open about poly stuff with my friends once I myself was dating more than one person--but it never happened so I never got the chance.

And then my relationship with Eli did end, and most of my friends have all been pretty clear that they never really liked Eli. They are happy that I've "moved on," and they don't want to hear that I still talk to Eli and consider him a friend.

But, the thing is--my friends are wrong. There is a reason I considered Eli my best friend for all these years, and why I fell in love with him. (And not just because of the sex!). Because Eli really got me and understood the parts of me that my friends never got.

I do have two or three friends who do understand my relationship with Eli. By coincidence, they all live far away, so I see them less than my other friends. That's been especially hard in this last year.

The thing is, the things that my friends disliked about Eli were NOT the things that were wrong in our relationship or the things that made ME unhappy. Eli changed dramatically during the pandemic in ways neither he nor I could have predicted, including developing a severe chronic illness; it became a complete different relationship than the relationship I'd been happy in.

My point is, I know how you feel. You've chosen an alternative relationship situation, and it's not always ideal or perfect. But it's what you want and it works in a lot of ways.

But when you have doubts, you have no one who understands or can help.

 

[Tinwen]

As far as old threads of mine go, I think this one might be worth resurrecting I was quite a fan of personal development bach in 2016, dabbling a lot. It was a good time.

https://polyamory.com/threads/positive-change-your-advances-on-the-personal-development-or-spiritual-journey.79776/

 

[Tinwen]

I think I know what Tinwen means...I recall a thread, or possibly Tinwen's comments on someone else's thread, where it sounded like Tinwen was considering breaking up with her partner. I recall telling her about how relieved I felt after leaving Eli and that Tinwen could similarly find a better life if she wanted. Is that the kind of thing you mean, Tinwen?

My apologies if it wasn't the right advice for your situation.

No worries!
I was indeed considering breakup very severely for most of last year, for several good reasons I believe.
I remember your post, and I appreciate it, as I didn't know about your story, and I felt you do understand my sentiment about doing all the accommodating.
One could say your voice has joined the "break up" chorus, but it's a unique and enriching voice, because it comes from personal experience, not a general idea how things "should be", like many of the others.

I mention this because many people in my life were always puzzled by what I saw in Eli. He is the opposite of me. I was profoundly happy with him for a decade, so I never truly needed advice about him, but sometimes if I mentioned a minor complaint, my friends were quick to express horror at what I was "putting up with." I learned to never mention his poly relationships to my friends, even positively, because they would assume Eli was awful and treating me badly.

So annoying.

Because Eli really got me and understood the parts of me that my friends never got.

That was indeed how I felt at the start of my relationship with Idealist. Like suddenly, someone saw me. The parts of me that have been taboo, inappropriate or just too dark to be seen were suddenly not just seen, but appreciated. That was just... HUGE.

The thing is, the things that my friends disliked about Eli were NOT the things that were wrong in our relationship or the things that made ME unhappy.

And here you got an advantage, because - leaving out obvious prejudice towards poly and bdsm - the problems I perceive in our relationship are mostly the same that are visible from the outside or that most people immediately understand if I start talking about us.
It's partly "real" shorcommings (which most people would consider bad behavior, emotional management or communication), partly, it seems, a clash of values.
So I don't get to act cool and happy, I can only say "yes this does bother me, but I stay ".

My point is, I know how you feel. You've chosen an alternative relationship situation, and it's not always ideal or perfect. But it's what you want and it works in a lot of ways.

But when you have doubts, you have no one who understands or can help.

Well, yes!

Although now that I've been thinking about it for a couple of hours I think it may be even more profound. It's like expressing the depth of my doubt... is "impossible"? I'll have to sit on that one a bit more. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Tinwen]

This experience of people telling me over and over that I have chosen wrong has been incredibly painful at times. It causes me to doubt myself and my judgement. Am I staying out of abandonment and self-esteem issues? Is there something pathological about loving this man? Does it mean there's something wrong with me, and even - if I feel, or felt for a long time, that leaving wold break me - am I already broken beyond repair for feeling this way? I still don't know the answer.

Those are good questions to ask, and since you don't know the answers yourself, surely no one else can say.

The thing is, they are not good questions, or at least they are not to be asked every other month for many years. It's not at all obvious, but these are self-doubts and depressive rumination.

In autumn I tried to break up. I was decided for a few hours. But in the end we convinced each other not to follow through.
I had what seemed like good reasons, and most of last year was tense with difficult discussions every now and then.
I believe the exhaustion from all this relationship stress and the breakup attempt, played a major role in why, two weeks later, I ended up in hospital. Most bodies can fight mycoplasma even without antibiotics. Not me this time.

We have improved since. Unfortunately the illness essentially nullified my chance to catch up and continue in science, so the travel aspect? No longer a question. Some other questions? Progress.

This relationship had its own set of doubts from day one and the topic are surfacing again and again, although in slightly different configurations. Some discrepancies are not going to change, ever.
What I really have to do is to be IN or OUT. No self-doubt. No ambivalence. No disrespect.
The way OUT is sometimes tempting just to end doubt (and hope for the unlikely case that it does not appear again in my next relationship.) It's straight-forward. Decide where to live next, make it through the period where we still must flatshare and work together to get the the flat we shared in order.
How to do the way IN, "he's him, you are you, we make it work and don't you fucking doubt your decision girl", is way less clear.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hmm, when the way isn't clear, and it's like, you get along okay, "it's good-ish, but not great," and you're not being abused, it can be hard to end things.

When I was deciding about leaving my ex-husband, I made an assessment that things were 60% good and 40% bad. I realized that that was not enough. Not enough at all! I deserved a better match. I jumped off the cliff, and gosh darn it, I found a much better match (and eventually a second much better match) for who I was, and where I was in my life, in this era of my self-growth.

Being so upset a chronic illness flares enough to send you to the hospital, and make continuing in your career plans impossible, seems like a red flag, to me.

 

[Tinwen]

Being so upset a chronic illness flares enough to send you to the hospital, and make continuing in your career plans impossible, seems like a red flag, to me.

This sent me for a loop again, but I'll skip that, and I'll skip most of the answer! [It's not like I haven't noticed.]

It wasn't a chronic illness (unless you call repeated infections chronic, which you might), it was just damn mycoplasma bacteria which filled the hospitals this autumn and which my GP failed to test for. With the back-to-back infections I had, I lost time and momentum for my last desperate attempt to stay in academia, and I'm struggling with brainfog, so although it's not yet official, that's that.

But what made me exhausted wasn't the relationship itself. It was doubt and fear of the future. It's at least as much a mental health issue as it is a real relationship issue, if not much more. It would be just plain wrong to assume I was ill because of something Idealist did or didn't do.
So that is the practice now. Skip the doubt. It didn't bring much good in ten years. Go IN instead of "neither in nor out".