The journey to myself

That is up to the puppy Mom and perhaps a puppy school how the puppy will turn out. Just like a child, it will depend on the parents and the environment therein.

It transforms you into a whole new way of living, yes. But you should already be ready and transcended for that anyway, and not having a child just to find that out because you have transformative FOMO? You're romanticizing the incentive of child-birth and rearing.
Reasons are very clear cut, you should want to put your small child first and connect with that tiny human. At all odd hours of the night.
 
Tinwen said:
Isn't that the seed of mad love that Icesong mentioned, and the transformative experience which helps you transition into a new lifestyle?
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It isn't like that for a lot of people and in fact, those who cling to the belief that this process will magically happen are those, IME, who find parenthood the most difficult. Up to and including a diagnosis of a perinatal mental health condition.

I will say that for most people, when this feeling isn't complicated by guilt, they end up with perfectly healthy and happy parent-child relationships. It seems to get overwhelming when you expect it to happen, it doesn't, then you feel guilty and that adds to your emotional state. When I say "it", I mean this magical, parental bond where you instantly fall in love.
 
Tinwen said:
Am I wrong to feel there is something deeply spiritual about going through the whole experience of pregnancy and childbirth and holding the little infant? Isn't that the seed of mad love that Icesong mentioned, and the transformative experience which helps you transition into a new lifestyle?
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You're not exactly "wrong," but all of your posts on this are frankly just all about you and your spiritual/reproductive FOMO. I don't see a single thing about what *you* want to do *for* a child, only what the process of having a child can do for *you*.
 
Ariakas said:
No... Not even close. (Hoping this is sarcasm. Haha fur parents don't have a clue how different it is)
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I was a kid once, so I do have a clue how different it is. I would not want to have a kid like me.

Also, my father shouldn't have had me. He didn't really want any kids and he was always saying shit to let me know it (not *to* me, but just always complaining about how much things cost and how he could have been a "DINK" if he didn't have a kid, etc.).
 
ref2018 said:
I was a kid once, so I do have a clue how different it is. I would not want to have a kid like me.

Also, my father shouldn't have had me. He didn't really want any kids and he was always saying shit to let me know it (not *to* me, but just always complaining about how much things cost and how he could have been a "DINK" if he didn't have a kid, etc.).
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Fair enough. I suppose there is a specific breed of fur parents I am referring to.

To be fair (not to your dad but to people who didn't want kids) there are some that fall into it well. I never wanted kids, I even married with that in mind. God to be a dink... but I had one, and I absolutely love my situation today with my child. So it does end up being situational.
 
Ariakas said:
Fair enough. I suppose there is a specific breed of fur parents I am referring to.

To be fair (not to your dad but to people who didn't want kids) there are some that fall into it well. I never wanted kids, I even married with that in mind. God to be a dink... but I had one, and I absolutely love my situation today with my child. So it does end up being situational.
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Forget about pets. I think that having a kid would be even harder than taking care of a 55-year-old with MS. The only thing that would be easier is that the kid doesn't weigh as much at first and it doesn't have any legal rights until the age of 18 (in the US).
 
ref2018 said:
Forget about pets. I think that having a kid would be even harder than taking care of a 55-year-old with MS. The only thing that would be easier is that the kid doesn't weigh as much at first and it doesn't have any legal rights until the age of 18 (in the US).
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I think there are a tonne of situations, caregiving is one, that are hard. Kids are an interesting problem. It was BRUTAL in the early years, 100% negatively impacting my life (purely selfish statement I know) but once he became older, his attachment started to change and I went from caregiving mom and son (my wife has some challenges), to having a little mini me trying to play with me. Thats when things got cool

Teenage years to follow... continuing to instill a morality I am proud of, and hoping he keeps, will be tough. There is a lot that can go wrong that can impact future generations.

The weight (not physical) of a child on our future weighs on me greatly.
 
Ariakas said:
I think there are a tonne of situations, caregiving is one, that are hard. Kids are an interesting problem. It was BRUTAL in the early years, 100% negatively impacting my life (purely selfish statement I know) but once he became older, his attachment started to change and I went from caregiving mom and son (my wife has some challenges), to having a little mini me trying to play with me. Thats when things got cool

Teenage years to follow... continuing to instill a morality I am proud of, and hoping he keeps, will be tough. There is a lot that can go wrong that can impact future generations.

The weight (not physical) of a child on our future weighs on me greatly.
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There have been some members of this forum (squishyhusk is one of them) who have had to keep caring for their children even into "adulthood" because their child will never be able to care for themselves, let alone care for their parents in their old age.
 
ref2018 said:
There have been some members of this forum (squishyhusk is one of them) who have had to keep caring for their children even into "adulthood" because their child will never be able to care for themselves, let alone care for their parents in their old age.
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Ya, my meta has two adult children who live with her. My ex has a teenage boy she will be caring for forever. All similar reasons.

I empathize with them, those are not easy situations especially if you are trying to buy a house, and you are forever looking for a place that fits all your cule + 2...
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
It isn't like that for a lot of people and in fact, those who cling to the belief that this process will magically happen are those, IME, who find parenthood the most difficult. Up to and including a diagnosis of a perinatal mental health condition.

I will say that for most people, when this feeling isn't complicated by guilt, they end up with perfectly healthy and happy parent-child relationships. It seems to get overwhelming when you expect it to happen, it doesn't, then you feel guilty and that adds to your emotional state. When I say "it", I mean this magical, parental bond where you instantly fall in love.
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I don't think it's magical or instantaneous (or even guaranteed). I just think pregnancy and all the hormones generated by interactions with little infants comprise the best condition for "it" to happen. I'm generally able to bond deeply, but it does take time for me, so I believe it would happen with my own (but not necessarily if I tried to adopt, as has been suggested).
I'm also aware of the existence of perinatal mental health conditions.

ref2018 said:
You're not exactly "wrong," but all of your posts on this are frankly just all about you and your spiritual/reproductive FOMO. I don't see a single thing about what *you* want to do *for* a child, only what the process of having a child can do for *you*.
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Please cut me some slack, all of you who liked this. This is the internet, it acts like a crooked mirror, always magnifying just a little part of the whole, hiding other parts. What you perceive as selfishness or coldness is surely, at least in part, fear.

Besides, one has to find selfish reasons to do hard things, otherwise, why do them. I'm not convinced kids should be conceived out of pure altruism. One has to perceive some benefits (ideally including feeling fulfilled by caregiving).

Of course, edge-cases like disabled children that need care even as adults are bit of a different story and one has to come to terms with the possibility that it happens, but I don't want to base my decision on that possibility.

In your opinion, what are GOOD reasons to have kids?
 
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For some people it is and they revel in it, for some people it's not and may take years for them to evolve their new identity. Some people also never quite manage to do that at all. You never can tell.

Is it worth it? For me yes. But you never stop being a parent. It's a life long responsibility which brings highs and lows and a lot of boredom too
 
Good reasons for me:

I always wanted kids. No ifs and or buts. I always wanted to be a mother.
Kids are fun and funny. They make you laugh.
They're adorable when they're asleep.
It's fun to teach them things.
Chasing after them can keep you fit (if you don't stress eat from anxiety and lack of sleep).
It's fun to see the world through their eyes, nature, holidays, Disney World, etc.
Having kids and breastfeeding is what women's bodies are designed to do, and it's healthy to nurse for years to delay return of menses. All that estrogen bombarding your body if you never get pregnant or breastfeed for at least several years (cumulatively) makes you more likely to develop reproductive cancers.
If you like to cook big meals, you'll get a daily chance to do that. (If you don't, you'll spend a fortune on feeding them.)
If you love to clean a trashed house and do laundry, it will never stop. (Some people do love to clean, I've heard.)
Reading them stories is fun. I love that. (Nowadays I read out loud to my partners though!)
Cuddling them to bed, while nursing them, feels blissful. (It's hormones, but it feels like love. Okay, it's both.)
At the end of the day, when they're in bed asleep (at least they'll sleep for two hours at a time, maybe) it feels satisfying, a job well done to have kept them alive another day.
It's character-building. The main thing I learned was patience.
It's fun to introduce them to movies you loved as a kid or discovered as a teen (for me, it was Wizard of Oz for littles, and West Side Story for young teens... wow, it was exciting to see them see those for the first time. Of course, then we went on to watch Wizard of Oz, Little Mermaid, etc., 500 times each...)

Those are some good things I experienced. Currently both of my adult daughters struggle with mental illness, despite all the effort my ex and I put into parenting and supporting them to be their authentic selves. The brain is a very fragile and unpredictable organ. Some kids can be raised as shitty as can be and turn out great. Others can be raised with all the skill and love, patience, care, endless sacrifice, money spent on enriching their lives, and end up drug addicts, or even worse.
 
ref2018 said:
To help get the harvest in before the frost and to change my diapers when I'm in a nursing home.
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I guess you are joking, but these were good reasons for all of history :/
 
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A supportive partner/family/network is crucial to parental sanity. I raised mine on my own. I love them dearly but it was tough, tough, tough, especially the four years of sleep deprivation!

I raised them to be independent and stand on their own two feet, so when they flew the nest they got on with their lives, with my blessing, and are not particularly close now. So bang goes the theory of kids preventing old-age loneliness.

But I have close friendships with people across all age groups, including little kids, which are fun and fulfilling. I just don’t expect my own adult children to be obliged to shore up any gaps in my life. So much can happen, not least that your child and you have totally different interests or personalities, which can make them an unreliable ‘investment’ for old age!

I think the reason to have kids is that you really feel you have something to offer them; unreservedly want them; and are prepared to sacrifice the next 20-25 years of your life (and finances) for them.
 
I love being a mother. And I genuinely like my kids. They're all grown now and live in different states. We vacation together at least once per year and visit each other regularly.

It is a lifetime commitment. And some periods are extremely rough. And some kids are harder than others. I have been blessed that mine are all generally kind, decent people. Some of my friends and family members have not been so lucky and have adult children with addictions and serious mental health issues.

Honestly, I do think there is a degree of selfishness in choosing to have children. But the truth is we make all manner of decisions daily that are self serving. At the end of the day, I believe you will know what's right for you.

Also, assuming idealist is the father and your meta agrees to it, your child would have a sibling even if you chose to only have one child.
 
PinkPig said:
Also, assuming idealist is the father and your meta agrees to it, your child would have a sibling even if you chose to only have one child.
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Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, there is kind of a sibling, but the age difference is - unfortunately - large by now. It seems like a short while, but he's five and a half now :) I was hoping to have a child sooner to have them interact, but I was indeed far from being ready and had health problems.

Meta has no "agreeing" to do, I didn't get veto power over them having a child either - but she's already aware. The thing to sort out together, however, is our living situation. What we have is kind-of satisfactory, but potentially unstable, since one of the flats is rented, so the landlord may decide to end the contract.
 
Yesterday, I reread the very first thread I started on this forum nearly 10 years ago. I hope my English has improved since :D
 
I didn't even realise you weren't a native speaker lol
 
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