Are any of you in a friendship where your friend morally disagrees with poly and regularly have heated debates concerning monogamy and polyamory. I would love to read your experiences. Personally, I think it is extremely difficult to have a platonic relationship with someone who strongly disagrees with your lifestyle?
Do you have a friend who disagrees with polyamory?
- Thread starter edpsy77
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River
Well-known member
Years ago I had a friend who thought polyamory was naive. That it couldn't work. I don't even quite remember what his "argument" was, any longer. But at the time it hurt that he was so dismissive and unsupportive.
He was often dismissive and unsupportive, though, which is partly why our friendship dissolved.
My best friend acknowledges that she'd never choose it for herself. She was distressed when I first told her about it. She was better the last time we had a girl's weekend. I hope she will meet Lance without a fuss. We don't actually debate it at all, though. It's just a you do you situation. She listens to me talk about my men, I listen to her talk about her step kids, we barely understand a word each other is saying, but we ask questions that helps the other think more laterally about what any of the issues are.
Also, she knows Tech, Siege and Shakespeare from our youth anyway. Her main issues were with Golf and Cheese, each for totally different reasons, and she's a little curious about Lance.
Also, she knows Tech, Siege and Shakespeare from our youth anyway. Her main issues were with Golf and Cheese, each for totally different reasons, and she's a little curious about Lance.
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I don't know that I could be friends with someone who wants to heatedly debate on it over and over. Like agree to disagree on that point and live and let live. Or just don't be friends because the values are too different.
What does the friend get from the heated conversation? Why do they need to keep harping on it? What's there to "debate" anyway? Like if they come up with good enough talking points, they will finally sway you to give it up and go monogamous?
I remember a friend who I am no longer in touch with went on a rant about poly. How it could never work, it was morally wrong, and lalalala.
I got tired of it and something along the lines of "Well, if it isn't your thing, that's fine. But what other people do is up to them. Not you. It isn't your life. "
She kept insisting it would NEVER work and she never knew anyone like that. How she couldn't understand why I wasn't getting all het up because I was the most responsible and ethical person she knew lalala. I SHOULD be all excited.
I said she does know people. My mom's BFF (who she met once) has been in a V for my WHOLE LIFE had kids and is a grandma now and is still going. I was in one for a few years and it ended well. So... maybe she knew others as well, but with her ranting like that it wasn't like they were gonna out themselves to HER.
She was surprised at the idea that she might know people, and maybe she might not know them as fully as she thought. I asked WHY would they even tell her if she's spouts off like that. Plus, they aren't dating HER so what diff does it make?
She backed up and said she could not see how it would ever work for HER. And I repeated that was fine. If it wasn't her thing, it just wasn't. Nobody is making her. What other people do is up to THEM. The ones who have to like their choices is THEM. She doesn't have to like it. It ok for her to disagree. It is not ok for her to go bananas like that about it, trying to boss the world. She is not in charge of everyone else. Only HER. I was ready to let it end there.
But then she was stuck on it another way... like explaining it away. She's just too jealous a person to do that! She didn't have time in her life to add more people with the husband and the kids and the in laws and work and lalala! It's just too complicated!
Rather than just letting it go. Or admitting she was being close minded and kinda asshole about it.
I said "Well, you know yourself then. Too jealous, no time, not for you. Let's talk about something else."
But then she wanted to examine WHY she's so jealous and what caused that and prevented her from accepting other people wanted to live differently. Cuz she's not gay but she's ok with her cousin being gay. He lives different. Why was she having a hard time with this?
And by that point I was bored. Like... get a therapist, lady. I'm not it and I don't want to plumb the depths of your mind with you. My point was made. She is not the boss of other people -- THEY get to pick how to live THEIR lives whether she likes their choices or not.
My Dad? He didn't like my mom's BFF. He ignores her for the most part and didn't like it that my mom maintained her friendship with her. He wanted mom to dump the friend. But they'd been friends since HS. My dad came way after the friend.
Person A wants monogamy? Great. Person B wants something else? Ok.
Why get so heated about it? Agree to disagree and be friends over OTHER shared common values. And if there are not enough shared things in common? Just don't be friends then. Because honestly? If they think it is immoral, then why are they friends with that poly person?
My former friend and I grew apart. For other reasons, but it was not easy being her friend when she would mouth off like that assuming everyone shared her values and her way of thinking.
Galagirl
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SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
It's usually because they are worried someone could propose this to them.
River
Well-known member
Our culture seems to suffer from a lot of confusion about values / ethics / morals. There truly are some things areas where should properly promote something like homogeneity about in values / ethics. I'd give caring for the Earth and ecosystem health as one of these. It's simply wrong to poison rivers or cut entire forests down. It's simply wrong to drive species into extinction. Another example is murder. Murder is not just a matter of moral or ethical opinion. It's wrong. Period. For everyone. Always.
Now what I just said allows me to make my intended main point, which is about social and cultural homogeneity. Some folks are psychologically constituted in such a way that they want homogeneity in all spheres, on all issues and topics. So, for example, they think everyone should be monogamous. And it's their moral duty to keep you on the One True Path (monogamy). These people love -- and need, crave -- conformity in all things. They are not comfortable with differences.
Watch out for this psychological type and dynamic when it enters politics! As it has been doing lately in various places. It can get really scary.
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Hi edpsy77,
I am mostly not out to my friends and family, so I don't know who would or would not object to my being poly. The few who do know, seem to accept it just fine. I suppose I can think of a few who wouldn't approve, but honestly, why do they even need to know? It's not their business.
I don't have a huge number of friends, come to think of it. And with most of them, I am no longer in touch. They're in Utah, and are busy with their own lives.
I don't want to get into a heated debate with anyone. I probably wouldn't have much to do with anyone who went off on me about it. I'm poly, and I'm okay with that.
Regards,
Kevin T.
I am mostly not out to my friends and family, so I don't know who would or would not object to my being poly. The few who do know, seem to accept it just fine. I suppose I can think of a few who wouldn't approve, but honestly, why do they even need to know? It's not their business.
I don't have a huge number of friends, come to think of it. And with most of them, I am no longer in touch. They're in Utah, and are busy with their own lives.
I don't want to get into a heated debate with anyone. I probably wouldn't have much to do with anyone who went off on me about it. I'm poly, and I'm okay with that.
Regards,
Kevin T.
Most of my "friends" as in people I know who I'm friendly to when I see them know I'm poly. I've had a few who have said they would never be able to do it, but if it works for me, more power to me. I had one who acted shocked and said she couldn't understand why my husband "let" me do this, that she won't even allow her husband to have female friends because they might be "too much temptation." Even though she expressed the "but you do you" idea as well, I can't in good conscience be friends with someone whose life philosophy includes "don't allow your spouse to have friends of the opposite sex in case they're temptation." So I'm not even friendly with her anymore, let alone friends.
Of the people who I consider *genuine* friends... Most of them are poly and/or kinky themselves. The handful who aren't are extremely open-minded and are just glad I'm happy.
Of the people who I consider *genuine* friends... Most of them are poly and/or kinky themselves. The handful who aren't are extremely open-minded and are just glad I'm happy.
River
Well-known member
I'm in STARK disagreement with that point of view, but I would consider befriending someone who held that view -- but only if they were willing to explore the possibility that it's a dumb notion. If they are rigidly attached to that notion, I'd not want anything to do with them.
JaneQSmythe
Well-known member
In order for me to consider someone an actual friend, they are going to know (and love) the entire me - even if they don't agree with my viewpoints. We can have conversations, even heated debates, but if they truly believe that I am a BAD PERSON , then how can we be friends?
The closest I have come is a friend that was worried that I was hurting MrS - she knew him and liked him and was concerned. She didn't berate me, she just had reservations. Then the three of us visited, and she saw the dynamic and was reassured that everyone was consenting and satisfied. It was only AFTER that that she let me know the full depth of her concern and that her fears had been assuaged. (Her husband, on the other hand, while superficially polite, apparently was appalled at our choices/lifestyle and didn't want her associating with me anymore. Tough - he isn't my friend, she is!)
When Dude and I were at Burning Man we fell into conversation with some folks at a nearby camp - a few of them were curious, but one guy was adamant that HE could never do poly, or "allow" a girlfriend to. After a while it got really monotonous, he kept coming back to it (well after the convo had moved on) - he couldn't seem to grasp that NO ONE was ASKING him to do poly. I got bored and left - I have no burning desire to convert anyone, he is entitled to be as mono as he wants to be!
The closest I have come is a friend that was worried that I was hurting MrS - she knew him and liked him and was concerned. She didn't berate me, she just had reservations. Then the three of us visited, and she saw the dynamic and was reassured that everyone was consenting and satisfied. It was only AFTER that that she let me know the full depth of her concern and that her fears had been assuaged. (Her husband, on the other hand, while superficially polite, apparently was appalled at our choices/lifestyle and didn't want her associating with me anymore. Tough - he isn't my friend, she is!)
When Dude and I were at Burning Man we fell into conversation with some folks at a nearby camp - a few of them were curious, but one guy was adamant that HE could never do poly, or "allow" a girlfriend to. After a while it got really monotonous, he kept coming back to it (well after the convo had moved on) - he couldn't seem to grasp that NO ONE was ASKING him to do poly. I got bored and left - I have no burning desire to convert anyone, he is entitled to be as mono as he wants to be!
Most of my current friends are bisexual or pansexual, or gay. Many are also not cis gendered, they are non binary or transgender or transsexual. Many are poly or at least very non-critical of those who practice it, very tolerant and educated around the idea of open relationships.
So yeah, alternative sexualities as far as preference and identity abound in my daily circle. At least they have for the last 10 years. I am fairly non binary, pansexual and polyamorous myself.
However, I lived monogamously and heterosexually for all my life from the time I was 19. Prior to age 19, I was sexually active since age 15. I sometimes dated, or had flings with, more than one guy at once, and had a couple experiences with women as well.
When I was a kid and a teen, I had a female best friend who is straight. She got married to a guy around when I did, and they are still together 40 years later.
I got divorced after 30+ years with my ex husband. Since then I have been dating men, a couple women, and also in an almost 10 year open relationship with my female partner.
It's so odd. My best friend from childhood has a hard time acknowledging I am in a long term, marriage-like relationship with my gf. She says, "Oh, Mags stays young because she dates all these young guys." Yes, I am in my 60s and generally get along best with men 10-25 years my junior. However, my actual daily partner, with whom I am most close, is also 22 years my junior. But it seems my old friend is so goddamn straight, she barely considers my relationship with my female partner "real." She's a bit envious of our open relationship, and how I can openly have multiple male partners. She likes to hear stories about the men. She likes to see pictures of them. She gets tired of being mono, but she's Christian, poor thing, and so monogamy is required in her brand of Christianity. But when we were wild teens together, she often dated multiple guys at once, although they were cheating arrangements, not open. So I know she likes variety.
Well, I do not live close to this old friend of mine. We can only get together once a year or less. So it's not that big of a deal. We text a few times a month... It's just frustrating she doesn't understand Pixi is my (female) life partner. She puts more weight into the guys I date... even though the longest relationship I've had with a man was 2 1/2 years, and I've been with Pixi for almost 10 years!
I've tried to explain all this. She has met Pixi a few times. She still discounts her importance in my life. I guess she has that patriarchal view that FF romantic or sexual relationships aren't "real." She has also told me that she thinks female genitalia is "gross." So probably her mind just shies away from thinking about the sex I have with Pixi.
So yeah, alternative sexualities as far as preference and identity abound in my daily circle. At least they have for the last 10 years. I am fairly non binary, pansexual and polyamorous myself.
However, I lived monogamously and heterosexually for all my life from the time I was 19. Prior to age 19, I was sexually active since age 15. I sometimes dated, or had flings with, more than one guy at once, and had a couple experiences with women as well.
When I was a kid and a teen, I had a female best friend who is straight. She got married to a guy around when I did, and they are still together 40 years later.
I got divorced after 30+ years with my ex husband. Since then I have been dating men, a couple women, and also in an almost 10 year open relationship with my female partner.
It's so odd. My best friend from childhood has a hard time acknowledging I am in a long term, marriage-like relationship with my gf. She says, "Oh, Mags stays young because she dates all these young guys." Yes, I am in my 60s and generally get along best with men 10-25 years my junior. However, my actual daily partner, with whom I am most close, is also 22 years my junior. But it seems my old friend is so goddamn straight, she barely considers my relationship with my female partner "real." She's a bit envious of our open relationship, and how I can openly have multiple male partners. She likes to hear stories about the men. She likes to see pictures of them. She gets tired of being mono, but she's Christian, poor thing, and so monogamy is required in her brand of Christianity. But when we were wild teens together, she often dated multiple guys at once, although they were cheating arrangements, not open. So I know she likes variety.
Well, I do not live close to this old friend of mine. We can only get together once a year or less. So it's not that big of a deal. We text a few times a month... It's just frustrating she doesn't understand Pixi is my (female) life partner. She puts more weight into the guys I date... even though the longest relationship I've had with a man was 2 1/2 years, and I've been with Pixi for almost 10 years!
I've tried to explain all this. She has met Pixi a few times. She still discounts her importance in my life. I guess she has that patriarchal view that FF romantic or sexual relationships aren't "real." She has also told me that she thinks female genitalia is "gross." So probably her mind just shies away from thinking about the sex I have with Pixi.
I'm in STARK disagreement with that point of view, but I would consider befriending someone who held that view -- but only if they were willing to explore the possibility that it's a dumb notion. If they are rigidly attached to that notion, I'd not want anything to do with them.
She's rigidly attached to it, and is of the school of thought that once two people (preferably a man and woman, in her worldview, though she accepts other gender pairings because that's just how things are now) are married, they are each other's property and cannot let anyone else interfere with it. I refrained from asking her, when we had that conversation, whether she also forbid her husband to work anywhere that he might have female coworkers, since it seems that a coworker is at least as much, if not more, temptation for someone who's considering cheating.
I can't be friends with someone who holds that point of view because for 14 years (not counting dating and engagement), I was with an abusive partner (my kids' father) who actively prevented me from having *any* friends of *any* gender. So I won't knowingly associate with anyone who believes they have the right to control who their spouse or partner befriends or spends time with.
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
I don't get that either. If someone goes "Hey, want ice cream?" and you do not want any, you can say "No, thanks. Not for me." No big deal.
If someone asks you out and you are Closed/Monogamous, you can say "No, thanks. Not for me." No big deal.
But yeah. Some people get nervy about that. Because it's not the asking THEM out per se.
Asking them out makes them think about other people living differently and having to face that not everyone thinks like they do or lives like they do. That could be very disconcerting for them. It's like an "under the surface" kind of thing or thought.
And someone asking them out brings it to the top and they might not like it. So... they may lash out at the asker for bringing something to the surface they prefer stay down below.
That's been my experience with some people.
Galagirl
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zigzag
New member
Sadly yes. We had good long term close friends (a couple) who were mono and we used to operate on a need to know basis with our friends as we had become poly after several years together. However, my wife started dating a guy they also knew and it was becoming a bit awkward and lots of other people knew so we opened up and told them. They seemed ok at first but over the next few weeks became distant and that unfortunately turned quickly into nastiness from one of them. Who told me bluntly when I invited them around, that they wanted nothing more to do with us as we were "weird" . These are people who we had shared close family happy and sad time with and "been there" for and vice versa.
However, it didn't stop there: nasty and untrue rumours were spread about us by them amongst a shared social group, and this led to us being ostracized from that group and certain " friends" refused to attend events if we were attending. We even had a wedding invite cancelled.
No actually 5 years later I don't give a flying fig , it was hurtful at the time, but we've made new friends and joined new social groups. And actually it has weirdly proven beneficial as it has allowed us to break out of certain insular behaviour and social groups.
We're open and honest these days and if people don't like our lifestyle that's their problem.
However, it didn't stop there: nasty and untrue rumours were spread about us by them amongst a shared social group, and this led to us being ostracized from that group and certain " friends" refused to attend events if we were attending. We even had a wedding invite cancelled.
No actually 5 years later I don't give a flying fig , it was hurtful at the time, but we've made new friends and joined new social groups. And actually it has weirdly proven beneficial as it has allowed us to break out of certain insular behaviour and social groups.
We're open and honest these days and if people don't like our lifestyle that's their problem.
That Sucks but not surprised
You know what River. I believe friendships are broken up over sexual/relationship ethics more than politics. I must say I am not surprised at all.
You know what River. I believe friendships are broken up over sexual/relationship ethics more than politics. I must say I am not surprised at all.
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
I think it's also the idea that if it's so "normal", your partner might decide to ask for it too. It's harder to say a firm no to opening your relationship if you suspect it might mean your relationship is damaged beyond repair.
I guess that could be some of it.
I still think it is ice cream. Don't want any? Say no!
If partner wants to open and they don't? They say no thanks. It might mean a parting of ways if the people want different things now, but that's not damaging things to me. That is letting romantic things end and accepting it's come to the end of the run. A respectful and honest parting leaves the possibility for "good exes and friends" open.
If the person can't be honest and up front and go "No. That is not for me." And chooses instead to give partner misinformation about their willing and able? Then it festers, then goes kablooie? How solid was this relationship in the first place?
That's the path to mess and growing a lot of resentments. That really does damage a lot of things. I'm not sure people can get to "good exes and friends" after kablooie like that very well.
I like having authentic relationship with a romantic partner. Like... be REAL.
It was a surprise to me to learn some people do NOT want that. They want a domestic partner to share roomie things, sex things, make kids, etc. But they aren't actually interested in knowing their partner on the inside. They just want the surface things. Mr and Mrs Whosit? Check. Picket fence? Check. Two kids? Check.
Some people also don't want authentic friendships and don't want to really know their friends on the inside.
Galagirl
I still think it is ice cream. Don't want any? Say no!
If partner wants to open and they don't? They say no thanks. It might mean a parting of ways if the people want different things now, but that's not damaging things to me. That is letting romantic things end and accepting it's come to the end of the run. A respectful and honest parting leaves the possibility for "good exes and friends" open.
If the person can't be honest and up front and go "No. That is not for me." And chooses instead to give partner misinformation about their willing and able? Then it festers, then goes kablooie? How solid was this relationship in the first place?
That's the path to mess and growing a lot of resentments. That really does damage a lot of things. I'm not sure people can get to "good exes and friends" after kablooie like that very well.
I like having authentic relationship with a romantic partner. Like... be REAL.
It was a surprise to me to learn some people do NOT want that. They want a domestic partner to share roomie things, sex things, make kids, etc. But they aren't actually interested in knowing their partner on the inside. They just want the surface things. Mr and Mrs Whosit? Check. Picket fence? Check. Two kids? Check.
Some people also don't want authentic friendships and don't want to really know their friends on the inside.
Galagirl
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SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
I guess that could be some of it.
I still think it is ice cream. Don't want any? Say no!
If partner wants to open and they don't? They say no thanks. It might mean a parting of ways if the people want different things now, but that's not damaging things to me. That is letting romantic things end and accepting it's come to the end of the run. A respectful and honest parting leaves the possibility for "good exes and friends" open.
If the person can't be honest and up front and go "No. That is not for me." And chooses instead to give partner misinformation about their willing and able? Then it festers, then goes kablooie? How solid was this relationship in the first place?
That's the path to mess and growing a lot of resentments. That really does damage a lot of things. I'm not sure people can get to "good exes and friends" after kablooie like that very well.
I like having authentic relationship with a romantic partner. Like... be REAL.
It was a surprise to me to learn some people do NOT want that. They want a domestic partner to share roomie things, sex things, make kids, etc. But they aren't actually interested in knowing their partner on the inside. They just want the surface things. Mr and Mrs Whosit? Check. Picket fence? Check. Two kids? Check.
Some people also don't want authentic friendships and don't want to really know their friends on the inside.
Galagirl
Most people I know would experience a massive change of circumstances if their marriage ended. Especially the monogamous people. The ability to dissolve a relationship simply because you want different things now is a privilege that isn't afforded to everyone.
They cant afford to move or have a big enough property for separate rooms, rely on two incomes to support a relatively frugal lifestyle and have children too. So to split, there would be 2 separated adults sharing a room or sleeping on the sofa with a bunch of confused kids wondering why their parents sleep in the same bed but seem to have split up. Or one person would move out significantly increasing the household expenditure and decreasing the standard of living for the children.
Their fear of major relationship change isn't just about fear of abandonment and loss, it's fear for maintaining a basic standard of living.
Myth that most society accepts poly
As a virgin who supports polyamory and swinging, I see it very problematic making close friends with average person because it is very likely they are monos who believe monogamy or sexual abstinence from others outside a serious relationship is an objective moral standard. The types of scenarios that have been articulated on this thread reinforce my deepest fears. This notion that large segments of society is accepting and even promoting alternative sexual lifestyles is crazy!!
(BTW I do understand they are different. This is not targeted to you but to others who think I don't know the difference)
As a virgin who supports polyamory and swinging, I see it very problematic making close friends with average person because it is very likely they are monos who believe monogamy or sexual abstinence from others outside a serious relationship is an objective moral standard. The types of scenarios that have been articulated on this thread reinforce my deepest fears. This notion that large segments of society is accepting and even promoting alternative sexual lifestyles is crazy!!
(BTW I do understand they are different. This is not targeted to you but to others who think I don't know the difference)
Not Telling My Parents about my lovers woudl be problematic
It also disappoints me that I would have a hard time telling my parents and brother about my multiple lovers because I am concerned on how they are going to react. Will my parents have a hard time maintaining the bond they have with me because of this? Will they preach against it in order to "fix" me? Will my brother flat out disown me? When I read some of the experiences many of you have had, I lack optimism.
I agree. It is not their business if you do not want it to be their business. However, I strongly prefer disclosing the lovers (either my future girlfriend or I have) to my close friends and close family members (MOM and Dad especially). I guess if you are talking about acquaintances, you would have less of an interest to disclose this information. However, l my partnas (urban slang for partners which means best or good platonic friends) need to know.
It also disappoints me that I would have a hard time telling my parents and brother about my multiple lovers because I am concerned on how they are going to react. Will my parents have a hard time maintaining the bond they have with me because of this? Will they preach against it in order to "fix" me? Will my brother flat out disown me? When I read some of the experiences many of you have had, I lack optimism.