Being her cuckold is one thing, but I don't think I can cope with poly

[LBeyond]

You did not have [two or more loving relationships] . . . [the joyful informed consent of all] . . . You are not being given time to absorb this information. You are being told to just agree to everything . . . You are the one being given an ultimatum.

(Paraphrased a bit)

Even though I have zero real kink experience, and avoided commenting much because of that, you've reached a point where the relationship has become toxic. I do agree with most people here that forcing an ultimatum right now will force the issue, and most likely abruptly end your relationship with Lena. Make sure you establish a fallback plan; somewhere, anywhere to go.

I might make the suggestion, instead of stating it as harshly as "It's either Grant or me," saying, "Look, you've wanted to make this work, but you can't. I don't like this. It's nothing but painful, and you don't seem to notice how it's actually affecting me. If you choose to continue this life with Grant, okay, but I can't be a part of it anymore."

Do not give in to uncomfortable pressure, and do not be too afraid to voice your feelings.

I don't think it's too far off to say you've entered a period of this relationship where Lena is, simply, abusive. There may be some slight chance she'll change, realize what she's doing and be upset at herself for it, but nothing you've shared with this group gives me any hope of that. You can love her all you want, David, but you don't have to love what's she's doing to you. Never let your love for her mask the horrible things she's imposing on you, verbally using your love against you...

You deserve better.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi David,
LBeyond has posted some excellent advice.

I have been doing some thinking, and I wonder if what Lena wants here is to take the cuckold/humiliation thing to a whole new level. Like she wants to parade you in front of the whole world, all your family and friends, and cry out through a bullhorn, "David is an inferior/inadequate man. He is inferior in every way, he would even be inadequate as a father, so much so that I have to turn to my bull/dom to be the father of my children." If I'm right, then to her this is all part of the game. And maybe that's why she's so sure she can get you to like it? It's not poly, it's cuckolding beyond the bedroom. Even telling you that everything is your fault could be part of the game, is that possible? She might perceive your angst as part of the game as well. Like your mouth says, "No, I don't want this," but your subconscious says, "This is turning me on." She does think she knows you that well, right?

I don't know if it's possible to explain to her that the game has gone too far, that it's no longer a turn-on, that it's become strictly painful for you. You might want to try to convey that to her, and if that doesn't work, then present your ultimatum. I don't know how caught up in this thing she is, I don't know what she's capable of hearing. In BDSM, there is usually a safeword (e.g. "red light"), you need a safeword in your humiliation/cuckolding game and I'm thinking you don't have one so you'll have to try to convince her that you're coining one. "Honey, this is me, your partner, not your cuck. I'm asking you to stop. Stop the game. It's hurting me, it's not turning me on anymore." It's doubtful that she can pull herself out of the "gamespace" even if you say that to her, but in the interest of trying everything possible to save the relationship, you might want to try to coin that safeword.

I hope things work out for you, somehow.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[MeeraReed]

It is totally reasonable to leave Lena at this point. She is not being kind or loving or understanding toward you.

 

[Evie]

You don't actually want to leave, do you David? And Lena won't actually kick you out, yet, because she still wants both of you, although from here, I can't tell why.

It's a bit of an impasse, really. You want to go back to Grant being secondary, she wants to go forward with him as co-primary.

You're not agreeing to this new relationship shape, but the only person you can control is you. When I don't like the relationship, I leave. It doesn't mean I don't like the person, but I was unhappy in those relationships. I was better off moving myself away from them. That's sometimes the call we have to make. One of these was a former fiance. That was heartbreaking at the time, but I healed, met new people, lived more by design that suited me.

Life is far, far too long to be unhappy every day.

 

[David1985]

I think she'd choose him because he's ready to go with the flow, although admittedly it seems that the direction of flow is in his favour right now, so it's easier for him.

Grant has told me that he is willing to go with whatever she wants, whatever that may be. I agree that it is easier for him to say this than it is for me, because it's been going his way.

 

[David1985]

Hi David,
LBeyond has posted some excellent advice.

I have been doing some thinking, and I wonder if what Lena wants here is to take the cuckold/humiliation thing to a whole new level. Like she wants to parade you in front of the whole world, all your family and friends, and cry out through a bullhorn, "David is an inferior/inadequate man. He is inferior in every way, he would even be inadequate as a father, so much so that I have to turn to my bull/dom to be the father of my children." If I'm right, then to her this is all part of the game. And maybe that's why she's so sure she can get you to like it? It's not poly, it's cuckolding beyond the bedroom. Even telling you that everything is your fault could be part of the game, is that possible? She might perceive your angst as part of the game as well. Like your mouth says, "No, I don't want this," but your subconscious says, "This is turning me on." She does think she knows you that well, right?

No Kevin, what you are saying would suggest that Lena is nasty. She is not. She is a loving caring person and is in no way spiteful.

 

[David1985]

Thanks for all your advice and thoughts, everyone. I really do appreciate it, because other than Lena and Grant, I have nobody else to talk this all through with, because none of my family or friends know the nature of our relationship. They all think we are the perfect couple.

The way things stand at the moment is as follows...

I decided not to give Lena an ultimatum, because I don't think that would have been fair on her or Grant, but mostly because I believe that I need to take responsibility for myself, and not have somebody else do it.

I told Lena that I felt that our relationship was over. She was not expecting me to say that, which surprised me. I told her how hurt I was that she had left, and that I was going to leave so that she could come back to her place. She was very upset, and said that she wants me to stay, and that she was ready to come home.

She has come home and we continue to work on a solution. We are all trying very hard, but it is difficult when you want different things. However, the fights have stopped, which is a good thing, because the three of us have not fought in the past.

Today Grant called and told me that he was going to see the new Star Wars film with his son, and asked if I wanted to go. In truth, I did not want to, but Lena persuaded me to make an effort and to give it a go. So I did.

It was disappointing, the film that is. I thought going would be awkward, but it was not, and Lena is right, he is a lovely little boy. Grant has taken him home now, but he is coming back to ours and is going to spend the night.

However, in truth I still feel that we are in trouble. If we do split though, I am happy that we will do it on as good terms as possible.

 

[vinsanity0]

No Kevin, what you are saying would suggest that Lena is nasty. She is not. She is a loving caring person and is in no way spiteful.

I wouldn't call getting caught up in a kink scenario "nasty".

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks for all your advice and thoughts, everyone. I really do appreciate it because other than Lena and Grant I have nobody else to talk this all through with because none of my family or friends know the nature of our relationship. They all think we are the perfect couple.

The way things stand at the moment is as follows...

I decided not to give Lena an ultimatum, because I don't think that would have been fair on her or Grant, but mostly because I believe that I need to take responsibility for myself, and not have somebody else do it.

I told Lena that I felt that our relationship was over. She was not expecting me to say that, which surprised me. I told her how hurt I was that she had left, and that I was going to leave so that she could come back to her place. She was very upset, and said that she wants me to stay, and that she was ready to come home.

She has come home, and we continue to work on a solution. We are all trying very hard, but it is difficult when you want different things. However, the fights have stopped, which is a good thing, because the three of us have not fought in the past.

Today Grant called and told me that he was going to see the new Star Wars film with his son, and asked if I wanted to go. In truth, I did not want to, but Lena persuaded me to make an effort and to give it a go. So I did.

It was disappointing, the film, that is. I thought going would be awkward, but it was not, and Lena is right, he is a lovely little boy. Grant has taken him home now, but he is coming back to ours and is going to spend the night.

However, in truth, I still feel that we are in trouble. If we do split though, I am happy that we will do it on as good terms as possible.

I am glad you took something of a stand and caught her notice by threatening to move out. She's still on her agenda though, of trying to seduce you into this "Grant as her baby daddy" scenario, by getting you to agree to going out with him and his kid, and then Grant coming back to spend the night. I wonder who is spending the night with "good father" Grant's kid.

 

[GalaGirl]

I decided not to give Lena an ultimatum because I don't think that would have been fair on her or Grant, but mostly because I believe that I need to take responsibility for myself, and not have somebody else do it.

Good. Do take responsibility for your own choices.

I told Lena that I felt our relationship was over. She was not expecting me to say that, which surprised me. I told her how hurt I was that she had left, and that I was going to leave, so that she could come back to her place. She was very upset, and said that she wants me to stay, and that she was ready to come home.

Man. Poly hell. Just not listening til you are ready to walk out the door.

She has come home, and we continue to work on a solution. We are all trying very hard, but it is difficult when you want different things.

While I'm glad the fights have stopped, if you guys want totally different things I am not sure what can be worked out.

Today Grant called and told me that he was going to see the new Star Wars film with his son, and asked if I wanted to go. In truth, I did not want to, but Lena persuaded me to make an effort and to give it a go. So I did.

I'm sorry to hear that. If you do not want to do things, just don't. I'm sure the little boy is just a little boy. None of this is his doing and you don't have anything against a kid.

But if you are working on taking responsibility for your choices, that means you listen to what you want inside first, not let Lena talk you into stuff she would like to see.

I'm worried that without building up this skill, you will let her talk you into sticking around when you are already hurting so much. It's like you keep wanting one thing, but doing the other thing she wants, instead.

However, in truth, I still feel that we are in trouble. If we do split though, I am happy that we will do it on as good terms as possible.

That's good. I hope you find comfort in that.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

kdt26417 said:

I have been doing some thinking, and I wonder if what Lena wants here is to take the cuckold/humiliation thing to a whole new level. Like she wants to parade you in front of the whole world, all your family and friends, and cry out through a bullhorn, "David is an inferior/inadequate man. He is inferior in every way, he would even be inadequate as a father, so much so that I have to turn to my bull/dom to be the father of my children." If I'm right, then to her this is all part of the game. And maybe that's why she's so sure she can get you to like it? It's not poly, it's cuckolding beyond the bedroom. Even telling you that everything is your fault could be part of the game, is that possible? She might perceive your angst as part of the game as well. Like your mouth says, "No, I don't want this," but your subconscious says, "This is turning me on." She does think she knows you that well, right?

David1985 replied:

"No Kevin, what you are saying would suggest that Lena is nasty. She is not. She is a loving caring person and is in no way spiteful."

vinsanity0 said:

"I wouldn't call getting caught up in a kink scenario 'nasty.'"

kdt26417 says:
Thank you vinsanity, that's what I was trying to get at. I thought the scenario I suggested would have actually "improved her appearance." Instead of not caring how David feels, maybe she does care and just honestly thinks that he's "enjoying the game" on some level. Hopefully when he told her he was going to leave, that kind of snapped her out of it.

 

[LBeyond]

She has come home and we continue to work on a solution. We are all trying very hard . . . However, in truth I still feel that we are in trouble. If we do split though I am happy that we will do it on as good a terms as possible.

The problems are recognized, communication is opened, and Lena and Grant both seem earnestly concerned enough to listen to what you're feeling. That's a positive foundation to build from.

I am a bit concerned about you opting, against your own sentiment, to hang out with Grant's kid... Children have a way of wheedling in extra complications, even if you, Lena and Grant had no intention for it. Don't involve the kids until you're sure you're staying, man. It'll only make things hurt worse if you do get attached.

 

[kdt26417]

You make a good point LBeyond, there could be an emotional attachment to the boy if much time is spent with him. And what if the boy grows fond of David? only to have David then vanish from his life? That would be unfair to the boy.

 

[David1985]

So, it has been a while since I last posted. I thought I would give an update, because I really did appreciate all of your thoughts and advice and want to let those kind enough to listen know what has happened

Lena and I are still together, and things are very good, although not 100%.

We arrived at a compromise, although I think I did more compromising than her. Although I knew I still loved her very much, I was on the brink of calling it a day, but did not want to until I was certain it was right for me, so I decided to give her suggestions a go.

We have come out as having an open relationship to our friends. Not a poly relationship or a cuckold relationship, but one where we are both free to see other people. Lena has introduced Grant to all her friends and they basically see him as her lover. I did not tell my friends directly, but knew it would filter through to them very quickly, and it has.

There have been lots of raised eyebrows, and tongues wagging, and some bemusement from my friends. Those closest to me most likely have guessed the truth with regards to the open relationship only being open for Lena, but they have not said anything. Those not so close think I am lucky to be able to fuck other woman. That isn't going to happen, and I don't intend to pretend that it is, so I guess in time they will know the truth, as well. However, now the novelty of the topic has worn off, things are as they were in our circle. It has gone a lot better than I thought it would.

We are not going to tell our families at this stage, but if they find out, we will not deny it, either. We have also agreed that Grant's son will not spend any time at our house, but Lena can continue to build a relationship with him at Grant's place. As sweet as the kid is, I do not want to get attached to him.

Lena spends two days/nights a week at Grants'-- Wed & Thurs one week, and Sat & Sun the next. Grant spends two nights a week at ours. Mon & Tues. Although they have sex on both of those nights, she sleeps one night in my bed, and the other in his.

So far it is working, and the three of us are getting on very well. It is still very much a day at a time for me, though.

Thanks.

 

[fuchka]

Thanks for the update, David. I'd been thinking of you now and then and wondering how things had been going for you.

It sounds like you have established something stable to go forward with for a while and see how it works for you. Your plan re Grant's son is really sensible. Best of luck with everything as it progresses.

I wonder if you've come to any agreements about the possibility of Lena having children of her own. No obligation to answer, of course!

Wishing you well.

 

[Magdlyn]

I thought I would give an update... Lena and I are still together and things are very good, although not 100%.

We arrived at a compromise... I knew I still loved her very much. I was on the brink of calling it a day, but did not want to until I was certain it was right for me, so I decided to give her suggestions a go.

We have come out as having an open relationship to our friends... one where we are both free to see other people. Lena has introduced Grant to all her friends... I did not tell my friends directly, but knew it would filter through to them very quickly, and it has. There have been lots of raised eyebrows and tongues wagging, and some bemusement from my friends. Those closest to me most likely have guessed the truth with regards to the open relationship only being open for Lena, but they have not said anything. Those not so close think I am lucky to be able to fuck other woman. That isn't going to happen, and I don't intend to pretend that it is, so I guess in time they will know the truth as well. However, now the novelty of the topic has worn off, things are as they were between our circle. It has gone a lot better than I thought it would.

We are not going to tell our families at this stage, but if they find out we will not deny it either. We have also agreed that Grants son will not spend any time at our house, but Lena can continue to build a relationship with him at Grants place. As sweet as the kid is, I do not want to get attached to him.

Lena spends two days/nights a week at Grants. Wed & Thurs one week, and Sat & Sun the next. Grant spends two nights a week at ours. Mon & Tues. Although they have sex on both of those nights, she sleeps one night in my bed, and the other in his.

So far, it is working...

That sounds great! So the relationship is open. You can get with other women if you want. But you don't want to, at least yet. We have had people here who opened their marriages because one partner wanted another lover, but then gradually, eventually, the other spouse (who thought they were definitely mono) also decided to date too. YouAreHere and Al99 are two that come to mind.

 

[GalaGirl]

So far it is working, and the three of us are getting on very well. It is still very much a day at a time for me though.

Good to hear from you!

It's ok if you decided to take it one day at a time.

Hang in there!

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi David,

Thanks for that update. It sounds like there may be some hope that things will work out after all. Being outed to your friends (and probably eventually, your family) is perhaps the biggest challenge, and you are tackling it. I hope things continue to gradually improve.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[David1985]

It sounds like you have established something stable to go forward with for a while and see how it works for you. Your plan re Grant's son is really sensible. Best of luck with everything as it progresses.

I wonder if you've come to any agreements about the possibility of Lena having children of her own.

We had discussed the possibility of Lena unintentionally getting pregnant with Grant's child before they fell for each other, and we agreed that if it happened, I would raise the child as my own and nobody would know. I was ok with that. I guess that it is quite common in cuckold relationships. However, it is different now, because she would want it known that he is the father.

Lena has again reassured me that she has no intention of having a child at the moment, though. So for now, it isn't an issue.

 

[David1985]

That sounds great! So the relationship is open. You can get with other women if you want. But you don't want to, at least yet. We have had people here who opened their marriages because one partner wanted another lover, but then gradually, eventually, the other spouse (who thought they were definitely mono) also decided to date too. YouAreHere and Al99 are two that come to mind.

The relationship isn't open. It is still a cuckold relationship. Lena would not be ok with me seeing anyone else, and I don't want to either. She told people that because she figured it would be easier on me, or easier than the truth. She was right. Those closest to us most likely know what the truth is, though, because they know me. Now that it has happened, I'm ok with it.