KT's Blog

I just want to make a point, and I am not judging here. I am very much an Alpha male...I don't use that kind of tone. There are ways to be Alpha and not communicate in that way. Just saying this since you insinuate that all Alpha males communicate in that method. :) Your husband is alpha and has THAT communication style. They are not one in the same, they just happen to overlap ;)

You're right - it does sound like I am stereotyping Alpha males in my post. I should have said "...you have only read a few posts from 2r and his tone in this post is that of hisAlpha male personality." Which is not how all Alpha males speak. He is the Alpha male, the dominant one in our marriage - there is no question about that. He is a very blunt, tell it like it is, take charge kind of guy. But that is only one facet of his personality.

I have mentioned this to MG and completely agree. Its absolutely been a pleasure to watch the evolution of the two of you and your relationship & communication.

Thanks! We have all put a lot of time and hard work into communicating and self-analyzing. It's been beyond difficult - but worth it!

I do strongly believe that '' Submit, and you will have the power" can be an effective strategy for resolving our quarrels......If I thought that I could happily submit, I would. But the reality is, I would struggle and fight and be miserable every step of the way. To think anything differrent would be kidding myself.


Some people might read this and wonder why you aren't willing to put the work into changing this about yourself. Knowing you as long as I have - I think it is amazing that you are able to recognize and admit that this is a fault of yours. I think that the fact that you are self-analyzing and recognizing your weaknesses is a big first step for you. Changing them in the next step!

Excepting this past year, a year in which KT's life has been completely rearranged, I think that she felt secure, loved, happy, and free to do as she pleased. Reading her response to my post, she hardly sounds like a victim of a cruel, controlling master, a woman denied free will, does she?

Nope! No victim here! Simply a wife who knows when to stand up for herself and when to yield to her husband. Only a wife who trusts her husband completely and who submits to him, allowing him the power and security to give up his control to me in return.

My post, directed mainly at MG, is an effort to make things better in a complicated relationship that involves two people that were born to clash and one that was standing too close. The truth is, as much as I love both MG and KT, they can both be real pains in the ass. Our clashes have been frequent and nasty. But we're still working at it, and I think the fact that we are all still involved is testament to the strength of our love..... or maybe it's just stubborness.

It is really difficult to see the two of you clashing this way! Last week I did get too close and I realized that this is something you two need to work out. I can't help either of you - as much as I want to. And hey babe - you can be a real pain in the ass too!! ;)
 
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Nope! No victim here! Simply a wife who knows when to stand up for herself and when to yield to her husband. Only a wife who trusts her husband explicitely and who submits to him, allowing him the power and security to give up his control to me in return. Only a wife who is, for all intensive purposes, his equal.



It is really difficult to see the two of you clashing this way! Last week I did get too close and I realized that this is something you two need to work out. I can't help either of you - as much as I want to. And hey babe - you can be a real pain in the ass too!! ;)

KT
It is amazing to see how much not only you but your relationships with these people have grown. Way to stand by your man and MG and understand where they are coming from even if it sounds odd to the rest of us. I know that at times in my posts DH can come across rough and not so great but I also know where he comes from in real life. It is hard to understand people when you only know them through threads and postings. I am glad that you have a strong enough relationship with 2R and MG that the three of you can defend each other and bring out the best qualities in yourselves.
 
It is amazing to see how much not only you but your relationships with these people have grown. Way to stand by your man and MG and understand where they are coming from even if it sounds odd to the rest of us. It is hard to understand people when you only know them through threads and postings.

Thanks AK!

I know that in his posts 2rings comes off as a controlling ass, with a cave man/Archie Bunker mentality towards women. While he does tend to have old-fashioned views on womens roles (he would love it if I was the 50's kind of woman who wore high-heeled shoes, a dress and an apron while they cooked and cleaned the house) he is in actuality a Mr. Mom. When our daughter was a baby, he switched his work schedule so that he could stay home with her during the day while I worked. He has stayed on that schedule for almost 12 years and also took care of our son when he was born. He is still the parent home during the day. He cleans the house, loads and unloads the dishwasher, does laundry, sews, vaccuums, dusts, cuts the grass, cooks, chaperones fieldtrips . . . whatever needs done, he does. He is an amazing husband and father! He is a very hand on, active Dad - much, much more than any of my friends husbands. So while he appears to be a man who views women as subserviant or submissive to men - the way he lives his life is completely the opposite. His comment about submitting was not intended to mean that he wants all the power. He wants to feel needed and trusted. When he does - he will gladly give himself to you. This is an issue that him and MG are going to have to work out on their own if a future is possible.

I hope this made sense.
 
I have been thinking a lot lately about my journey into polyamory and how far I have come in 13 months. I've always said that I feel like I am going through the 7 Stages of Grief:

1. SHOCK & DENIAL
2. PAIN & GUILT
3. ANGER & BARGAINING
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS
5. THE UPWARD TURN
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE

http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html

For me - these stages are not consecutive. I still jump back and forth between each of the 7 stages.

The reason I chose the 7 Stages of Grief is because while my husband did not die, I feel like what I thought and believed about our marriage and our future did die. My life has been completely rearranged because of my husband falling in love with MorningGlory629. I have been grieving for our past and for our future. I've been grieving for the life we had and for the future we were going to have. I have been grieving for myself - for the person I thought I was to him. I thought I was special because I was the person he shared himself with. I knew his thoughts, feelings, wants, desires, dreams, insecurities, secrets. When he was upset or having problems at work - I was the one he came to. Now with MG knowing all of those things too and now that he goes to her with his problems - I realize that I'm not so special. So for me - this is a grieving process.

It has been a long, hard and painful journey.

But it has also been a journey of growth, self-awareness, hope. I have changed so much in this past year. There have been huge ups and deep downs. Things I never imagined would be possible, now are. Things that used to hurt me or that would cause me to meltdown, are still here, but my reaction to them has changed dramatically.

Before, when 2rings and MG would fight - I would take pleasure in that and would hope that they would break up so that my pain would go away. Now when they fight - I feel sad for both of them and I hope they don't break up - because I know how much it would destroy them both.

Before, MG would post something on Facebook - and it would make me so angry or so hurt that I would cry over it. Now when she posts things on Facebook - while it may hurt a bit at first - I don't react the same way I used to.

Before - the mention of her name pissed me off. Now - it doesn't and I bring up her name as much as he does.

Before - when I was angry or hurt - I would fight with him. Now - if something bothers or worries me - I know I can talk to both of them about how I'm feeling.

Before - after we had 2 threeways - I got jealous and insecure and melted down big time during or afterwards. Now - we had a threeway this weekend - and there was no crying and no meltdowns. There was no insecurity, jealousy, hurt. It was a lot of fun and made me feel closer to both of them.

Before - I hated her, resented her, and vowed I would never accept her. Now - I consider her a good friend and look forward to getting to know her better.

Am I completely, 100% ok with everything? No.
Am I still feeling insecure? Yes.
Do I still get upset/jealous when they are out together? Yes.
Am I having meltdowns when I feel that way? No.
Am I still learning and growing as a mono in a poly marriage? Yes.
Is this rollercoaster journey over? No.
Will I ever give up? Nope!
Am I proud of where I am now? Absolutely!

To be continued . . .
 
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^ Great post KT :) Thanks for sharing with us on this level. You're an inspiration my friend :)
 
My 7 Stages of Grief:

1. SHOCK & DENIAL - even though 2rings and I had been swinging for a few years, when he came to me and told me he wanted to have sex with MG - I was shocked. After weeks of talking and crying, of saying yes then changing my mind - I finally gave the ok. When he came home from work one night, woke me up and told me they had had sex that night - I was shocked and devastated. When they started texting a lot, I would check our phone records to see when and how much. We fought constantly about that. I kept telling him again and again "she's not your girlfriend!" When in reality - I knew that's what was happening. I just didn't want to believe or accept it.

2. PAIN & GUILT - I was so hurt by their relationship. Even though he told me everything that was going on from the beginning, I felt so betrayed once I realized this was about more than just sex. That they were developing a relationship was heartbreaking. I started feeling that it was my fault. That I wasn't a good enough wife or lover. That I had neglected him in some way. I felt that he fell in love with her because of something I lacked. There were many times that I asked him to end it with her - but then I would feel guilty when I saw how upset he was. I felt guilty that once again, I couldn't give him what he needed.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING - When he came home one night from being with her and told me they were in love - I literally lost it. I hit him, threatened him, screamed, cried . . . it was the worst night of my life. I have never felt such hatred and anger. Through screams and tears I prayed to God to help me, to end my pain, to give me my life back. I made promises to Him if He would help me. I also made bargains with 2rings - in the form of restrictions. He could see her, have sex with her etc - but not in our house. I would accept and understand that she was a part of his life - but I did not want her to meet our friends and family. These restrictions eventually just caused more anger and resentment from my husband.

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS - During the first 6-8 months of their relationship, I definitely suffered from depression. I was withdrawn, sad, crying constantly, edgy, easily angered. I felt like I was walking around in a fog, barely able to function, neglecting my family, friends, job, responsibilities, just trying to make it through the day so I could lay in bed at night and cry. I went on medication and started seeing a therapist - which only minimally helped. I felt so alone. No one understood how I was feeling. I had no one to talk to. My husband is my best friend, but because he was the cause of my pain, I couldn't talk to him about things. That made me even more sad and lonely. I missed him. I missed us. I hated what was happening and I hated the person I had become.

5. THE UPWARD TURN - I eventually up'd my meds and found a more poly-friendly therapist. Through therapy and in talking to my husband - I realized that while he was the one who had fallen in love with someone else - it was me who was destroying our marriage. I realized that he didn't want to leave me, that she wasn't taking him away from me - but that I was pushing him away from me into her arms. My inability to realize and accept that I was loved, wanted, and needed by him and that he still believed in "forever" was what was pushing us apart and threatening our marriage. He was holding on to me and I was pushing him away. Once I was able to recognize this - I realized that I have the power to change the way I viewed the situation and my part in it.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH - I took a proactive role in learning about and understanding polyamory through research, reading books and this board. I stopped blaming them, started trying to really get to know MG and started doing things that made me happy. I started focusing on the positives, on his love for and committment to me, and on our children. I am learning to focus on the here and now, to enjoy the time I have with him and to not worry about the future and things I can't change. I don't always succeed, but I keep trying.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE - I have now begun the process of accepting that they are in love and that they are hoping for and planning for some type of future. I am starting to accept MG as a part of our lives - albeit slowly. Restrictions that I asked for months ago to help me cope - are now being withdrawn. My one restriction was that she not meet our friends or family. This past weekend we invited her to a party at 2rings best friends house. We all had a great time and having her meet our friends wasn't a big deal like I thought it would be. I have hope for the future of our marriage and for a close relationship/friendship with MG.

My journey is not over. Sometimes issues come up that cause me to revert back to previous stages. The good thing is that I am able to recognize it and move on pretty quickly.
 
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Congrats KT...I am really impressed and happy for you guys...your man is a lucky man...

And great way to analyze it...sometimes intellectualizing something emotional helps put it into its place...
 
KT Thank you for this. I think I need to sit down and do this myself. I think it would help with my own struggles in all of this. Thank you so much!
 
So - it's been a few days since I've posted, basically because not too much has been going on.

Up until a few days ago - my emotions were pretty much calm and cool. Thursday MG and I texted a little bit about jealousies and insecurities we were both feeling. It got a little serious, but I think we both felt good that we could talk that openly and honestly and end up feeling good at the end.

2rings and I talked about it that night and the next day - but other things came up that caused me to start worrying, projecting and crying. We were talking about the future, theirs and ours. I got worried, overwhelmed and insecure that what they want is different than what I want. I'm worried that in 5-10 years, she may decide she wants a divorce (she has not led me to think that - it's based on my fears) and want either more time with him or that he'll want her to move in. I'm afraid that when that time comes, I'm going to have to make a decision that I don't want to make. I'm afraid that I'll just not be able to live like that and him and I will need to divorce. I feel like I am going through all of this changing - but for what? To get divorced in 5-10 years anyways???

Mentally I understand that there is no reason to worry about something that may or may not happen 5-10 years down the road. I am hoping that my feelings on this issue will change by then. Based on how they have changed in the last few months, I have reason to hope - but the worries are here now and I'm trying to reason them through and not allow them to overtake me.

The other night while I was talking to my husband about things - we did start to argue. I was crying, started yelling and walked out of the room. I went downstairs, cried, calmed down, went back up to bed, snuggled with my him and apologized. We talked a little more and I was able to get him to realize that sometimes I just need to tell him how I feel - without having to have a long conversation or discussion about it. I just need him to hear me out, let me cry, and hold me. He is a fix it guy. Give him a problem - he'll know what to do. Emotions and relationships don't work like that. Most times I don't want him to fix the problem - I just want/need to tell my best friend how I am feeling and have my feelings acknowledged by him. He doesn't have to agree with why I feel that way - he just needs to listen and hold me. This is something that he needs to work on. A few months ago - this would have turned into a huge fight, he would either sleep upstairs or we would both sleep in our bed and avoid all contact. We wouldn't talk for a day or two. Life would be miserable. This time - we were able to work it out fairly quickly. This is a big change!

MG and I had another issue a few nights ago but we were able to talk/text about it last night and we got it worked out. A few months ago this would have meant anger, hatred, tears and angry words - but not this time. MG and 2rings had a little disagreement about things - but they talked that through. It's a small step - but it's taken many baby steps to get there.

I am feeling hopeful about the future - but still have some lingering concerns. I'm just trying to put the unfounded fears and worries behind me. I need to live in the now, enjoy my husband and marriage now and NOT worrying about the future.

MG - don't worry, this will pass - it always does. Honestly - nothing to worry about! We're good - it's my brain that's messed up. We are in a good place.

The learning, growing and changing continue . . .
 
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Mentally I understand that there is no reason to worry about something that may or may not happen 5-10 years down the road. I am hoping that my feelings on this issue will change by then. Based on how they have changed in the last few months, I have reason to hope - but the worries are here now and I'm trying to reason them through and not allow them to overtake me.

Thinking about what might happen in the future is not a bad thing. Just understand you are thinking of the future from your own insecurities and assumptions. Don't guess about things that may happen, which then bother you, before they even happen.

I think about things in the future all the time, things that might, could, hopefully will happen. Worst case scenarios. Heck I am a geek, I always think about the worst case scenarios, thats my job. Just don't let things that haven't happened bother you.

Being cognizant of them, and having them affect you are two different things :)


Emotions and relationships don't work like that. Most times I don't want him to fix the problem

God if it only were this easy. :cool:

I just want/need to tell my best friend how I am feeling and have my feelings acknowledged by him. He doesn't have to agree with why I feel that way - he just needs to listen and hold me. This is something that he needs to work on. A few months ago - this would have turned into a huge fight, he would either sleep upstairs or we would both sleep in our bed and avoid all contact. We wouldn't talk for a day or two. Life would be miserable. This time - we were able to work it out fairly quickly. This is a big change!

Congrats :D...and I agree, little steps. Lots of progress...:D
 
I'm worried that in 5-10 years, she may decide she wants a divorce (she has not led me to think that - it's based on my fears) and want either more time with him or that he'll want her to move in. I'm afraid that when that time comes, I'm going to have to make a decision that I don't want to make. I'm afraid that I'll just not be able to live like that and him and I will need to divorce. I feel like I am going through all of this changing - but for what? To get divorced in 5-10 years anyways???

Please stop worrying about this...my marriage may be a bit different than yours but divorce is not something I want.

MG - don't worry, this will pass - it always does. Honestly - nothing to worry about! We're good - it's my brain that's messed up. We are in a good place.

The learning, growing and changing continue...

I hope so, it can make one weary...and wary. I thought we were in a good place and am working to stay there; and while accepting my role in the minor disagreement with you and again with 2ring, I was a little hurt/confused.:( But glad it is somewhat cleared-up and we can enjoy eachother's company, and move a little freer amongst eachother.:)
 
Please stop worrying about this...my marriage may be a bit different than yours but divorce is not something I want.

MG - by now, you should know how my mind works. I tend to grab hold to a piece of information (a text, a comment, a post) and ruminate about it. I worry about things that I have no control over, get hurt, upset, fret, sometimes cry, talk it out . . . then put it behind me. Sometimes those issues come up again and again - most of the time I'm able to ignore that nagging feeling of concern - and every so often I can't. I'm not going to lie - after all this is about honesty - I worry about the future. How can I not? But I do understand that I need to focus on the here and now not the who knows. I'm working on it and that's all I can do.

I hope so, it can make one weary...and wary. I thought we were in a good place and am working to stay there; and while accepting my role in the minor disagreement with you and again with 2ring, I was a little hurt/confused.:( But glad it is somewhat cleared-up and we can enjoy eachother's company, and move a little freer amongst eachother.:)

As I said in my original post - we are in a different place, a lot has changed in the last 2-3 weeks - but my feelings are what they are. They come and go. I'm sorry you were hurt/upset by our disagreement - it wasn't handled the way I wanted it to be because 2rings can't keep his mouth shut or stay out of the middle. I know he does it out of love and concern - but he hasn't learned to let you and I handle our conflicts. As I said before - I was going to speak with you about it on Sunday since I knew you had a lot going on on Saturday and I didn't want to upset you. It was a minor thing that got blown out of proportion unnecessarily.

Things ARE fine between us. I am continuing to work on my jeaousy, insecurity, doubt and uncertainty.

“Every tomorrow has two handles. We can take hold of it with the handle of anxiety or the handle of faith.” Henry Ward Beecher
 
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A blurb from Mark Hansen (the Ambassador of Possibility)...the Chicken Soup for the Soul guy:
"Don't wait until everything is just right. It will never be perfect. There will always be challenges, obstacles and less than perfect conditions. So what. Get started now. With each step you take, you will grow stronger and stronger, more and more skilled, more and more self-confident and more and more successful.”:)
 
Insecurities come and go when you least expect them. And sometimes there isn't any particular trigger. You can be driving down the road sometime and they just hit you out o nowhere. It is about recognizing them and working through them in your own way before they spiral out of control.
KT I think you are doing wonderful with confronting how you feel and understanding where they are coming from. I do understand that sometimes it takes a few days and sometimes the others can't help you. More often than we like we have to own up to how we feel and work through it on our own because our poly spouses while love us and want to be there simply can't fully grasp the worries and fears that we have. And there is nothing they can do to help except listen to us when we are ready to talk and then let us take it from there. DH is a fix it guy and we are working ourselves at him accepting that he can't always fix my insecurities. But I do appreciate his love and concern.
 
Insecurities come and go when you least expect them. And sometimes there isn't any particular trigger. You can be driving down the road sometime and they just hit you out o nowhere. It is about recognizing them and working through them in your own way before they spiral out of control.

ak - that is very true! I am laying here in bed and feeling weighed down by insecurities and doubt - and I have no idea where it's coming from. 2rings and I have had a great, albeit, very busy weekend - but I am feeling sad, alone and desperately needy of him. I have been trying to push it aside but it keeps coming back. I'm not wallowing in it - just acknowledging that this is how I am feeling and trying to figure out why.

KT I think you are doing wonderful with confronting how you feel and understanding where they are coming from. I do understand that sometimes it takes a few days and sometimes the others can't help you. More often than we like we have to own up to how we feel and work through it on our own because our poly spouses while love us and want to be there simply can't fully grasp the worries and fears that we have. And there is nothing they can do to help except listen to us when we are ready to talk and then let us take it from there. DH is a fix it guy and we are working ourselves at him accepting that he can't always fix my insecurities. But I do appreciate his love and concern.

As you know, these feelings of jealousy and insecurity come and go quickly. I don't want to worry 2rings or MG everytime one of those negative thoughts comes along. They aren't doing anything intentionally to hurt me - so I need to own my feelings and work through them by myself. I do this, not because I don't trust them - but because I love him and care for her and don't want to worry or upset them because of my issues. That's where I am today - recognizing, acknowledging, working through . . .
 
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How are you Kt

I've worried about you ever since your last post. How are things going?

Sage
 
My last post...

I wanted to give an update on how things have been going the last few weeks. Not so good. I had been feeling very disconnected from 2Rings and was feeling a lot of insecurity, jealousy, low self-esteem and self-loathing. These feelings were not because of anything him or MG did - but simply because that was where my mind was. When I'm not connecting with him - it makes it harder for me to be ok with them. I was trying to work these feelings out by myself: talking to friends, posting on here and talking with my therapist. As far as I knew - things were fine with MG and I. What I was feeling was because of our marriage, our relationship - it had nothing directly to do with her. It was just something him and I were going through.

In the hopes of connecting again - 2Rings and I went away alone for a few days and had a great time. We felt connected again. On the way home - something MG did (or didn't do) set me off and I admittedly lost it with 2Rings. I'm not going to get into specifics - as it doesn't really matter. I (over)reacted to it, he defended her, criticized me and I blew. He lost it as well and in turn, I took off my wedding rings and told him I was done. I sent her a text telling her and I was told to stop being so dramatic. My marriage was falling apart - I wasn't being dramatic, I was devastated!

I have tried for 14 months to accept this. I have done everything I can think of to accept this situation - all to make my husband happy. I have read everything I can about jealousy but I just don't think I'm able to stop feeling like this. MG and I are too different. We would not have been friends in any other context. The only thing we have in common is him. I don't like her and she doesn't like me - it's that simple. I can't like or be friends with someone I don't trust and she can't like or be friends with someone who is as emotional as I am. We tried to like each other - it didn't work. Friendships can't be forced.

Him and I went to see our therapist on Monday and will continue to do so. We both want to work this out. We do not want to break up our marriage or our family. I love him with all of my heart - he is my life. I also do not want them to break up because I know he loves and needs her in his life.

I have always had a small amount of insecurity, low self esteem and self-hatred. It has grown exponentially since MG entered our lives. It is now out of control and is making me crazy. This is not the person I am - but I can't seem to turn my insecurities off. I can't understand how him loving her doesn't reflect on or take away from me. She makes me feel ugly, plain, boring, lazy, uninteresting. I don't make him happy like she does. She is everything I'm not - I can't compete. I completely understand that this is MY issue and is nothing that she is doing. I also understand that she isn't anything that I can't be - but when you hate yourself and don't think you have any self worth - its hard to try to be something you're not.

In talking to our therapist - I have decided that I need to cut MG out of my life as much as possible. I need to work on me. I need to find out who I am individually - not as 2Rings wife or our kids Mom. I need to start liking myself and recognizing my self worth. I can't do that when I am comparing myself to her.

As part of cutting MG out of my life - I am not going to be on this site anymore (or at least I am going to try). I have become slightly obsessed by this site and constantly look to see what she is posting. Most of the time what I see causes me hurt. Also, I can't post about things I am going through because MG and 2Rings often get upset by what I write. I wear my heart on my sleeve - I cannot hide how I am feeling. I have been nothing but truthful and honest on here about things that are going on and how I am feeling. I hide nothing. I can't act happy when I am feeling miserable. I believe in being honest and open. I have been criticized by 2Rings and MG for being too dramatic, negative and selfish on the boards. Apparently some of you have PM'd MG talking about how negative I am and how long and self centered my posts are. I loved having a place where I could get my thoughts and feelings out and have people understand, relate, sympathize and give advice. I thought this was a great place for both polys and monos to come to to get opposing points of view, support and advice. Unfortunately - it has turned into a place where I am criticized and my feelings and struggles are considered whining. Sadly, it's no longer a place I can come to comfortably.

I have learned a lot and met some great people. Thank you to everyone who has helped me over the last 3 months. If you would like to get in touch with me - my email address is [email protected]

Take care and thank you again! I wish you all the best!

Kat ;)

Addition - someone just sent me an email that said "I'm so glad you have done this final post, as it puts a balanced face to polyamory, which isn't always fun and skittles." The hardest part of this right now is knowing how much I am hurting my husband. He loves us both and it hurts him deeply to see MG and I not getting along. He had plans for the future that included all of us - and now he feels the future is hopeless. Seeing the hurt, anger and resentment in his eyes is breaking my heart. While neither one of us wants to end our marriage - I don't know if we will ever be the same again. I have to be true to myself (;) Mono) and this isn't making me someone I like. I do sincerely hope things change between MG and I - but things are the way they are right now. I have to be selfish right now and focus on myself, my happiness, our marriage, our children and our family. Those are all that matters to me. Polyamory can work - but it's not for everyone.
 
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