Redpepper's journey

Tinwen

Active member
Good lessons with your crush.
I hope to use what I have learned and turn the shit and shine parts of my polymory journey into someone else's benefit. I wrote a thread about it here if you care to add your two cents.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107677
I'm quite interested in whether you established the group and how it's been working, would you be willing to share? Either here, or in that thread?
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Good to hear from you again RP; it sounds like you have some challenging circumstances, and are working through them as well as anyone could. That man from Bali sounds interesting, he sounds like a man of honor. Kind of sucks that he is not available, but one never knows what might reside in the future.
 
As someone who had to leave an abusive relstionship, I'm not too keen on characterizing someone who doesn't - especially a man - as having "honor and integrity". I feel that just reinforces patriarchal biases that make it difficult for any victim to seek help for their situation and difficult for men to admit their situation in the first place.
 

redpepper

New member
I'm quite interested in whether you established the group and how it's been working, would you be willing to share? Either here, or in that thread?

Hi there, thanks for asking. It worked out in terms of learning, for a time. There were conflicts as to how we should operate and many people objected to how we approached some things. Ultimately it was a really good experience. I feel closer to some of the people I met in the group and feel proud to of tried something out. We all came from a good place.

Legalities built fear in us at the end and no one wanted to pay to get advice.
 

redpepper

New member
As someone who had to leave an abusive relstionship, I'm not too keen on characterizing someone who doesn't - especially a man - as having "honor and integrity". I feel that just reinforces patriarchal biases that make it difficult for any victim to seek help for their situation and difficult for men to admit their situation in the first place.

Could you say more in this please? I'm not sure I'm getting what you're saying here. And I'd like to.
 

redpepper

New member
Good to hear from you again RP; it sounds like you have some challenging circumstances, and are working through them as well as anyone could. That man from Bali sounds interesting, he sounds like a man of honor. Kind of sucks that he is not available, but one never knows what might reside in the future.

Heeeeyyy, there's no "like" button here, but it's always nice to be greeted by old friends so I thought I'd just give you a wave. :)
 

fuchka

Member
Hey, nice to hear an update from you, RP.

I had a similar reaction to SenatorBinks re you seeing "honor and integrity" in someone who is staying in an abusive relationship because he had committed to the relationship. Well, you said *possibly abusive". But even without the abusive dynamic, I'd respect someone more if they were willing to end a relationship that they don't want to be in, rather than stay for the commitment.

You said:

he wants out yet he stays because he committed with his vows 25 years ago.

I'd feel safer with someone who takes care of themselves. Maybe if his children were younger, keeping a stable home for their sake would make sense. Even that is doubtful, though. Is this the kind of self-sacrifice you'd want to role model? For me, no.

When you are someone who values being reliable, keeping promises etc, it is very hard to admit that you are unable to make good a commitment. You want to be able to do it, because you said you would. But admitting you can't is like admitting you're wrong - it's very difficult to do! And it challenges your self-image.

Adding a possible abusive dynamic on this makes it even worse. It's not healthy for either person (or others they live with) for an abusive relationship to continue.

Not everything is so black and white, of course, but in my opinion there is no dishonour in saying "despite my vows, this is enough". In fact, it can be an immensely brave and strong act of personal integrity.

I don't mean to criticise the choices of this particular person. And perhaps your value system is different to mine, which is why you see this in a different light to me. I wonder, though, whether you want to make sense of his decision as if it's a good and noble thing, because of how you feel about him? And to make peace with how he has decided to stick with his marriage vows? Perhaps you want to see it in a positive light.
 

redpepper

New member
Really interesting comments here. Thanks for the chance to pause and think. Thanks for giving me the chance to say more about my thoughts.

I had thought of my idea of integrity (I don't believe I said honour, might be wrong though) and I would not want this man as he is now. My respect for the integrity he has is to do with his decision to stay at arms length from me when their is obviously attraction there. It is so easy to allow intimacy to grow in his and my situations. I have less to lose than he does if that were to happen.

He believes he has more than he wants to lose right now and instead of moving in for an attempt at an affair with me (I would never allow that... fyi) he makes sure I am part of his day only for the five minutes I see and only at a distance. I suspect I fill some kind of void, have given him pause to think on his options and have launched him into a self journey that he is currently still on.

Everything takes time, even years of time (it's been 18 months that I have let on how I feel). I imagine that he has weighed up his life and 25 years of marriage and is assessing his situation. Maybe even making plans to leave or reevaluating whether or not the abuse (that I haven't witness and have only heard might be going on) is something he can work with his wife on or avoid enough to muster up some kind of semblance of independence from. Maybe he is equally abusive. I don't know. There are always two sides to everything.

It's true, I would definitely want to see what we could have together should he decide to leave his wife. That seems to be something that is not on the table right now and even if it were and he did leave her, he has so much work to do! I would be crazy to involve myself in any kind of deep relationship with him as he is now and even for a good length of time, should he leave.

My thoughts on him are more about what kind of person I want in my life. What I would not settle for anymore and what I would look for. If I had a man in my life who had a crush on someone like me and who kept his distance because of the vows that he's made to me, I would consider that, yes, something to honour. Considering where I've jist been, that would be a huge check off my list of admiral qualities in a partner.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
That makes sense; you respect the fact that he is not trying to have an affair with you, and that he is trying to figure out for himself whether he should leave or stay with his wife.
 

fuchka

Member
Thanks for saying more, RP. And no, you actually didn't say honour originally. I lifted that from SenatorBinks, whoops.

If I had a man in my life who had a crush on someone like me and who kept his distance because of the vows that he's made to me, I would consider that, yes, something to honour.

I can definitely understand that. I mistook what you were saying before. I thought you meant the laudable part was someone staying with someone they didn't want to be with, because of the vows. In general, keeping promises and not having affairs is a good thing, yes! I agree with you :)
 

dingedheart

Active member
Hey RP than you so much for checking in. I know I very much appreciate these updates from less active members.


I quickly scanned back and saw you say ( and I should have quoted it ) I was living the poly dream that was built on lies and deception. Wasn’t there only 1 arm ( mono’s ) out of 3 or 4 that was based on lies ?? And yes I can see it as problematic, painful but wouldn’t the structure give you the support to tie off the severed limb and get back to living the dream by replacing that arm with a new one ???

As I recall the dream was husband PN, mono, derby, Leo. Is the Leo you mention now the Leo from back then ?? What happened to derby do you still see / remain friends , etc ? Whatever happened to your ex wife is she still around ?
 

redpepper

New member
Just clarifying: Do you talk on the phone for five minutes every day?
No, I see him when he drops my clients off for the day. Sometimes he picks them up too and in those days he sometimes takes his break close to my building. I usually take my break (a half hour) at that time and go for a walk. That's where this all started 18 months ago. I would walk by his vehicle and we got talking beyond the niceties of our daily work responsibilities. We began a friendship that turned to attraction. He was very kind to me when my life turned to shit and has always been a gentle and compassionate man toward me. His kindness in my confusion and devastation will never be forgotten. We have known each other for ten years before we would meet and have conversations on our break time. People used to joke that he is my work boyfriend because we would flirt and banter back and forth. He has always looked out for me and goes the extra mile for me. I have always done the same for him. We never really knew each other until my break ups. It's sad to me that we hide our attraction and have backed away from each other because of it. Sometimes that happens I guess; two people get close, realise their connection and due to circumstances need to back right off because of the percieved threat. Sometimes i wish we could go back to our flirty/banter days.
 

redpepper

New member
I quickly scanned back and saw you say ( and I should have quoted it ) I was living the poly dream that was built on lies and deception.
uh huh... my dream was from my 20's and it took until my late 30's to make it come true. I have different dreams now.

Wasn’t there only 1 arm ( mono’s ) out of 3 or 4 that was based on lies ??
Mono was the biggest deciever and liar because it was on purpose. Perhaps everyone played their part though. Deception and lies were everywhere..I also lied to myself and deceived myself. Other than Mono, I think the lies and deception were out of lack of understanding ourselves and/or out of personalities coming together. I think it's the nature of any dynamic of people coming together that there will be lies and deceit at times. I think as humans we do that all the time. I don't believe anything was done on purpose but as a result of what the story became over time.

The difference with Mono is that he was fully aware of his actions and how they would effect others. He tried to keep the secrets of his lies and deception under wraps as a result and ultimately, failed. The others were slimply being themselves and the closeness we had lead them all to deceive me and themselves. I deceived myself and lied to myself because I wasn't paying attention to reality. I was so immersed in my dream and so overwhelmed with the time it took to balance my life that I created a situation where I thought everything was under control and how I liked it and it was far from that. I've learned to never complicate my life in that way again. As a result I spend a lot of time alone, prefer my own company, keep others at arms length and only hold a handful of people close to my heart. I take a long time to mull over choosing people to be in my life. I think the world has changed too though.

My story happened at the dawn of social media and during a time of far more trust and bluntness on line. Now people aren't as quick to trust or communicate as openly on line and in real time as a result. At least that is what I have noticed. I think age and stage has changed me also... let's not forget that I am on my own now with my teenaged boy and that brings a whole new perspective as I need to take care of a house on my own and my kid on my own.

And yes I can see it as problematic, painful but wouldn’t the structure give you the support to tie off the severed limb and get back to living the dream by replacing that arm with a new one ???
No. It's impossible to replace an arm. There is no arm like the arm I had. Lol. My dream has changed now anyways. I've done that dream. It's checked off. It was never meant to be a life time dream I guess. It was just a flash in the pan and was fools gold. I'm sure there is gold out there for me but not in the same spot as I was. I am completely different now. I've got my pan ready for when I see a flash again but this time I won't be jumping up and down singing 'hallelujah' at the first glance of that flash... I'll be weighing it up, examining it under a microscope for imperfections, finding out it's worth before even announcing I have it. When that day comes... I will write here. Who knows, I may just throw it away or keep it as a sovereign of the time I'm spending finding the nugget that's worth displaying and being thrilled to find (as I feel I am with the man I'm dating now). In the mean time, I'm gold panning with one arm. Harder to do, a longer process that requires more focus and skill, but I'm a veteran and I can do it. I will do it.

As I recall the dream was husband PN, mono, derby, Leo. Is the Leo you mention now the Leo from back then ??
PN! Right! I had forgotten my ex-husband (now a woman)'s name here. Thanks for the reminder.

No, the man is a Leo in terms of the sun sign. Leo was also a Leo, but not the same Leo as now. I hear from Leo every now and then. He lives with his wife still and has a long term girl friend as well. Once she came on the scene he had little time to talk to me. Ironic, considering he used to complain that I didn't have time when I had several partners and didn't have time to talk. Meh, we haven't had much to say to each other since I have changed paths. I see him and what we had differently now. I have tender feelings for those times but I would never of gotten as close to him as this new me. I wish him well and talk to him when it comes up, but I have no desire to hold on to that connection in any way.

What happened to derby do you still see / remain friends , etc ?
No, we aren't friends and I never see her or talk to her. I hear she is happy and well, divorced and with a new man. She's not with the man that I was also with. I don't know if it's a poly thing with this new guy or anything beyond that. I wish her well but I have no interest in reconnecting. Even to reminise about the past. I have mixed feelings about what happened with her and prefer to chalk it all up to experience and my past... a place I have moved away from.

Whatever happened to your ex wife is she still around ?

My ex-wife is still around! She bought a house down the street from me a few years back and after a break up with the woman she lived with there for a year, met a woman at the poker club we were in. I knew she'd be a keeper and I was right! They got married this past summer and I was part of the ceremony in a small way. There were only a handful of people there. Just their families and two closest friends. I was there as her closest friend and the other friend was there as her partner's closest friend. Since then they've worked hard to get pregnant and are due with a boy in a couple of weeks. My ex-wife is the carrier of her new wife's egg with donor sperm. She's 47 this spring! Unbelievable what science can do to make a women's dreams come true! I saw her today looking plump and healthy and complaining that her arms are falling asleep and that she only can sleep an hour at a time. I will be auntie again and I'm so excited!
 
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redpepper

New member
I just caught up on some blogs. Wow... my life is so boring in comparison, lol. I'm totally happy with that and really happy to read up on some old friends. I'm so glad to read that people seem to be living their lives and enjoying their lives as they should be and always have.
 
I could have sworn I had read "honor." The post has been edited, but I could also have been projecting based on things that were said to me when my situation changed.
 

redpepper

New member
I feel so on the verge. There's been a shift again somehow and I don't want to miss a moment. The sun is shining, there's been some conversations with peers that have made me feel there is movement. This time, instead of trying to figure it out on my own, I thought I'd write here. See what you all think. I love the blunt honesty here and I am so sick of waiting, waiting, waiting, maybe I'll hear something different here. Or maybe it'll be more about waiting... lol.

In a short time I have the opportunity to make some bold moves. Find a new job, create new relationship opportunities, travel, sell things, buy new things. Anything that works. I've been waiting so long for this! My boy will launch and me, being the best mother I could possibly of been, will be ready.

My boy has given me his blessing. He knows I'm waiting. He has said, "mum, you need to get on with your life now and I will too." My boy and I have conquered so many things together. I am so proud of my efforts and so proud of my boy... I just read a post I wrote in 2010, at the beginning of this blog, where I was concerned that I was messing with his stability. I am so proud of myself for rising to the occasion to put him first. I always did in my poly journey and that has continued until now. It set a president back then that lasted until now, 2020. Looking back, I wouldn't do it any different. I wish I knew what I know now back then. I wouldn't of wasted time on people who don't have the same values as me. I'm sad about that, but it was meant to be.

So here's the thing now.

I just talked to my HDB (decided that I need to commit to a name for him if I am going to talk about him here). Last time I went away on a holiday, I didn't tell him. I felt bad about that as I was gone for two weeks. It was obvious he was excited to see me when I got back.

HDB never tells me when he's going away. He said once that he needs to keep things between us as if I were another worker. I read that as 'one he doesn't have an attachment to.' He wouldn't tell them he's going away so why would he tell me. Part of being loyal to his wife, no doubt. I feel I don't have that obligation... so I told him this time that I will be away until next week.

Immediately after telling him he asked where I was going and who with. I didn't tell him the details but the conversation lead to him telling me how he used to go on trips and how fun it was. I asked him why he doesn't now. His kids have grown, he surely has the opportunity now. He said he can't if he wants to keep his marriage. He looked sad and like he was waiting for me to say something about that. I think I missed an opportunity somehow. All I said is, "ya, I don't have that issue, thankfully." And then said I'd see him next week. Damn! Did I miss some opportunity to launch into how I feel and what I could offer to him should he allow me? Damn! I'm right here! I'm so all over giving space for dreams and doing what each other wants. Damn! I'll go with you! Im ready to do it all with him. I'm right here! Waiting! Do I still have a chance to say something about this topic? What would I say? Help?!

Edit: he used the word, "if." As in "IF" he wants to stay married he wouldn't make his own plans. Am I reading into this? Was that my chance to ask questions? Say something about what I could offer... how good a match we could be? Damn damn damn! I'm such an idiot! I wish I was more quick to respond and quicker to put words together in short notice and with little time. Maybe it's okay, I have until next week now to compile a response maybe...

I wonder what he has planned with his wife? I could ask him that...
 
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