We did. I'm slow. Letter it is, from here on in.
I'm in over my head
- Thread starter Freetime
- Start date
We did. I'm slow. Letter it is, from here on in.
Handmaiden
New member
You sound so much like my partner, it's scary! He wonders why I don't feel content with "just him" for the rest of my life, when he knows he would be happy to be with only me. It's the first real area where my needs and his do not match up perfectly.
You sound like a wonderful man, and wonderful men are well worth holding onto!
Indigomontoya
New member
I really struggled with that too, FT. I was okay with the physical, didn't want to know the details, but fine with it. The emotional piece hurt. I got past it in a couple of ways. I refer to my last post, specifically about realizing that there are different things you each bring to her life. Her life is richer for having more loves. I came to understand this. Best way to describe it is to realize that love and emotions are not finite. She is happy with her friends, and your own post says it's friendship + sex. So my recommendation is to compartmentalize it like that. You get turned on by the sex. Si be turned on by it, and compartmentalize the emotions as another friend.
That being said, it's going to be tough. You're hardwired for monoamory. It won't take a week to change, if this change is something you really want.
Handmaiden, as for the monoamory versus polyamory, why does he have to be polyamorous? This is something that TP and I struggled with. She identifies as a lifelong polyamorous person. She just never fully embraced it until now. I am trying to be polyamorous, but I am perfectly happy being monoamorous. As long as you embrace what his needs are to be comfortable, there's no reason he needs to be pushed towards polyamory. As he allows you to explore polyamory, it should work.
That being said, it's going to be tough. You're hardwired for monoamory. It won't take a week to change, if this change is something you really want.
Handmaiden, as for the monoamory versus polyamory, why does he have to be polyamorous? This is something that TP and I struggled with. She identifies as a lifelong polyamorous person. She just never fully embraced it until now. I am trying to be polyamorous, but I am perfectly happy being monoamorous. As long as you embrace what his needs are to be comfortable, there's no reason he needs to be pushed towards polyamory. As he allows you to explore polyamory, it should work.
BlackUnicorn
New member
Oy, I understood the problem is that it feels like friendship + sex to Freetime, which is a bad combination, to his mind, sort of like, 'If she's getting both of these from someone else, what use will she have for poor old Freetime?' Am I reading this right?
Handmaiden
Thank you for the compliment and the information. Both are appreciated. But is it need or want?
Indigomontoya
Thank you. I appreciate the insights and help you've provided. On an intellectual level, I understand the idea of many loves, and do not believe anything is wrong and/or odd about it. But emotionally? Different story there, my friend. I know in my wee monkey brain everything you say is true. I do. But I struggle with the emotional context at a level I didn't know existed.
I now have books, websites and people all over the world showing me what polyamory is, and that I'm not unique or special in my pain or struggle to understand. I just wish I could grow up a tad faster and find my equilibrium sooner. But that ain't happening. So I'm just going to hang out with you folks until it does.
Today I'm great. No hidden fears popping up, no feelings of loss or replacement. I feel in love, and happy Tess is my wife. Pretty sappy stuff, but that's how I feel. When I check into what I really want for Tess, when I think of what this means to her, I know I'll do everything I can to help bring this about.
BlackUnicorn
Basic description of a complex problem. Disturbingly accurate in its assessment. Yes, you are reading me right. I know that a large part of this is getting over myself and my issues/history. The reason I've decided to post here and not withhold the details or challenges, is so that those who have come before can accurately guide me through this.
I'll post later tonight about how the day went. Here's hoping it will be less troublesome then yesterday.
Thank you for the compliment and the information. Both are appreciated. But is it need or want?
Indigomontoya
Thank you. I appreciate the insights and help you've provided. On an intellectual level, I understand the idea of many loves, and do not believe anything is wrong and/or odd about it. But emotionally? Different story there, my friend. I know in my wee monkey brain everything you say is true. I do. But I struggle with the emotional context at a level I didn't know existed.
I now have books, websites and people all over the world showing me what polyamory is, and that I'm not unique or special in my pain or struggle to understand. I just wish I could grow up a tad faster and find my equilibrium sooner. But that ain't happening. So I'm just going to hang out with you folks until it does.
Today I'm great. No hidden fears popping up, no feelings of loss or replacement. I feel in love, and happy Tess is my wife. Pretty sappy stuff, but that's how I feel. When I check into what I really want for Tess, when I think of what this means to her, I know I'll do everything I can to help bring this about.
BlackUnicorn
Basic description of a complex problem. Disturbingly accurate in its assessment. Yes, you are reading me right. I know that a large part of this is getting over myself and my issues/history. The reason I've decided to post here and not withhold the details or challenges, is so that those who have come before can accurately guide me through this.
I'll post later tonight about how the day went. Here's hoping it will be less troublesome then yesterday.
Company?
Freetime, Beodude, Vodkafan and Carma's husband, I've been experiencing so many of these, too. I feel like I've grown, stretched, expanded emotionally, intellectually and spiritually over the last 5 months, since my wife met her BF, and generally been on the most insane emotional roller coaster ever. Although it's hard to admit, I've cried more in 5-months' time than my entire life.
(My folks always remark they appreciated my lack of crying, being their third.)
It's just as Beodude123 describes, though. Another layer of the onion of my pain/issues is peeled back each time. I'm able to reflect on what the real issues are after each time. I told my wife I'm just going to go with the crying, as it actually helps. Back in 'ole October I was:
- uncommunicative to wife,
- distant and not available to wife & kids
- experiencing lack of feeling, no real love, pain, happiness, mainly just numb
- kind of addicted to things (escapism-- sci-fi books, TV, microbrews, food)
- low self esteem
When my wife uttered those fateful words: "I'm falling in love with someone new and am going to pursue a physical relationship with him," I couldn't even feel or express my emotions. My body felt cold and I began shaking with fear.
I've really got my life on a new track just a short 5 months later. I lost 60 lbs (never thought I'd be under 200 again, but yeah), and detoxified my body (vegan for 4 months, no drinks), which really allowed my mind to clear. I'm like a sponge for anything developmental, interesting or intellectual now. I can swim for hours, jog and run around, like a kid again, play with my children.
It's been quite a journey and I feel like I'm just beginning. I actually feel excitement over my process now (at times). Who can I become? It's kind of like I've been set free of shackles and free to be myself, find myself.
I just went through another down period on this rollercoaster, however. The comments of Carma and Beodude123 are so true! I'm co-dependent with my wife. I've gotten especially clingy and smothering when we're together. New realization, as a result of this latest 3-week downer, but it could be the most important one.
I do go through periods of doubting that this is for me, that I can thrive in a polyamorous environment, especially in the down times. But I peel away another layer of the onion during those times, and always seem to find my real issue, accept it and move past it. And then it's great again - my heart is full of love for my wife, our three children, myself, and life in general.
I just wanted to relate that you've got company during your individual journeys.
In fact, I believe women are leading the charge in evolving. Individually, we're experiencing crisis in our relationships, but as a society, and even species, there will be a larger crisis in the days ahead. (It's hard to believe this is me speaking.)
Freetime, Beodude, Vodkafan and Carma's husband, I've been experiencing so many of these, too. I feel like I've grown, stretched, expanded emotionally, intellectually and spiritually over the last 5 months, since my wife met her BF, and generally been on the most insane emotional roller coaster ever. Although it's hard to admit, I've cried more in 5-months' time than my entire life.
(My folks always remark they appreciated my lack of crying, being their third.)
It's just as Beodude123 describes, though. Another layer of the onion of my pain/issues is peeled back each time. I'm able to reflect on what the real issues are after each time. I told my wife I'm just going to go with the crying, as it actually helps. Back in 'ole October I was:
- uncommunicative to wife,
- distant and not available to wife & kids
- experiencing lack of feeling, no real love, pain, happiness, mainly just numb
- kind of addicted to things (escapism-- sci-fi books, TV, microbrews, food)
- low self esteem
When my wife uttered those fateful words: "I'm falling in love with someone new and am going to pursue a physical relationship with him," I couldn't even feel or express my emotions. My body felt cold and I began shaking with fear.
I've really got my life on a new track just a short 5 months later. I lost 60 lbs (never thought I'd be under 200 again, but yeah), and detoxified my body (vegan for 4 months, no drinks), which really allowed my mind to clear. I'm like a sponge for anything developmental, interesting or intellectual now. I can swim for hours, jog and run around, like a kid again, play with my children.
It's been quite a journey and I feel like I'm just beginning. I actually feel excitement over my process now (at times). Who can I become? It's kind of like I've been set free of shackles and free to be myself, find myself.
I just went through another down period on this rollercoaster, however. The comments of Carma and Beodude123 are so true! I'm co-dependent with my wife. I've gotten especially clingy and smothering when we're together. New realization, as a result of this latest 3-week downer, but it could be the most important one.
I do go through periods of doubting that this is for me, that I can thrive in a polyamorous environment, especially in the down times. But I peel away another layer of the onion during those times, and always seem to find my real issue, accept it and move past it. And then it's great again - my heart is full of love for my wife, our three children, myself, and life in general.
I just wanted to relate that you've got company during your individual journeys.
In fact, I believe women are leading the charge in evolving. Individually, we're experiencing crisis in our relationships, but as a society, and even species, there will be a larger crisis in the days ahead. (It's hard to believe this is me speaking.)
Handmaiden
New member
Freetime: is it a need or a want? That's what I'm trying to figure out at the moment. If it's a transient want, I don't want to risk my relationship. If it's a need that will keep resurfacing, then I will have to face up to it.
Indigo: I'm not trying to force him into being polyamorous. I don't see where I said I was.
Indigo: I'm not trying to force him into being polyamorous. I don't see where I said I was.
MonoVCPHG
New member
Is anything besides food, water and shelter really a need? I see needs as things that can result in death when we are deprived of them. Humans are a species driven by wants and desires that our intelligence has enabled us to dream of and fantasize about. The fulfillment of these wants beyond the basics of life is what gives us pleasure. Meeting our needs enables us to live. Achieving our wants enables us to thrive.
Most other creatures are simply fulfilled by meeting their basic needs.There's nothing wrong with that. It's okay to have wants. Do you want to live, or thrive?
Handmaiden
New member
Mono, I get what you mean, but I tend to think of needs in a non-violent communication framework. So yes, there are survival needs, but there are emotional needs, as well. They are aspects that, if we don't meet them (given survival needs are met) we feel negative emotions, a disconnect from our life. I have a huge need for physical intimacy, where if it isn't met, I start to feel very unhappy, and like I'm starving. So while it's not a necessity from a survival aspect (although arguably emotional needs not being met may lead to suicidal thoughts), it's a need I have to meet or I start finding myself depressed and out of step.
Derbylicious
New member
Human beings do need physical contact, as well. There have been been studies done on children raised in orphanages who are fed and clothed, but who aren't loved and held. There are much higher levels of failure to thrive, which basically means that these children just don't grow. I imagine it's the same for adults. We might be finished growing physically, but the same effects must be taking place inside people who aren't being loved.
People *do* need touch. Old people in nursing homes lack touch, which is why some places bring dogs in to be passed around and petted. This keeps the old folks healthier.
People who don't get enough touch usually turn to other things, like food, TV, video games, to compensate.
Of course, there is a sex "drive" as well. We are compelled to mate by our biology. Most of also us hit a mood in our late 20s to reproduce. We get baby fever.
I think this is all so obvious it barely warrants discussion.
People who don't get enough touch usually turn to other things, like food, TV, video games, to compensate.
Of course, there is a sex "drive" as well. We are compelled to mate by our biology. Most of also us hit a mood in our late 20s to reproduce. We get baby fever.
I think this is all so obvious it barely warrants discussion.
redpepper
Active member
Thank you, Handmaiden. Mono actually knows this if he looks back at the NVC talk we went to. We are an evolved society. Food/shelter/water are covered for us, for the most part. We don't live in a third world country. Actually in a lot of third world countries they have intimacy, closeness, connection, family, touch covered more than we do, out of necessity for survival, I think. The society that most of us live in on this forum is moving away from intimacy, closeness, etc., because we don't have a necessity for it in terms of getting our greater needs met for water, shelter, food. It is the opposite from third world countries, and something that I personally have worked hard to have in my life, because I need it. It turns out that humans need more than just the basics for our bodies to be safe.
Need vs Desire
In this situation, I have come to the conclusion that for Tess it is an emotional/spiritual need to experience another connection with a man in a relationship that can or will be sexual. Do I completely understand it? No. And I'm not going to pretend I do. My "complete" understanding is irrelevant. My acceptance and support are not. Tess has communicated that this part of her life journey is temporary, not forever, which makes it much more palatable for me. However, in affairs of the heart, who really knows? I'll take this one step at a time, one day at a time.
She and I have had many, many talks, late into the night, about this desire of hers. And although I'm not completely clear as to the why of it, I am working on fully supporting it. After all, I'm her husband, life partner and best friend. How cool is that? Exactly.
Today has been a very cool day for me. I have experienced one of the most peaceful fear-free days I've had in years, and I have you folks to thank for that. You have asked me questions I didn't want to answer, supported me when things got bad, and encouraged me continue working on my stuff.
Tess has been, and continues to be, loving, caring, patient and understanding of what I'm going through. She has taken some big risks to show me just how much she loves me, including being willing to walk away from this, if I asked her to. And with your help, may I never do that.
I want to be a light-bringer, someone who supports the people in his life to live large, loudly and in love. Someone who encourages the people he meets and lives with to have the best life they can have, and does what he can, when he can, to help them along their way. I want to be the man my wife thinks I am.
I have far to go, but at least for today, I'm joyful where I am.
You folks have a great day. I know I am.
In this situation, I have come to the conclusion that for Tess it is an emotional/spiritual need to experience another connection with a man in a relationship that can or will be sexual. Do I completely understand it? No. And I'm not going to pretend I do. My "complete" understanding is irrelevant. My acceptance and support are not. Tess has communicated that this part of her life journey is temporary, not forever, which makes it much more palatable for me. However, in affairs of the heart, who really knows? I'll take this one step at a time, one day at a time.
She and I have had many, many talks, late into the night, about this desire of hers. And although I'm not completely clear as to the why of it, I am working on fully supporting it. After all, I'm her husband, life partner and best friend. How cool is that? Exactly.
Today has been a very cool day for me. I have experienced one of the most peaceful fear-free days I've had in years, and I have you folks to thank for that. You have asked me questions I didn't want to answer, supported me when things got bad, and encouraged me continue working on my stuff.
Tess has been, and continues to be, loving, caring, patient and understanding of what I'm going through. She has taken some big risks to show me just how much she loves me, including being willing to walk away from this, if I asked her to. And with your help, may I never do that.
I want to be a light-bringer, someone who supports the people in his life to live large, loudly and in love. Someone who encourages the people he meets and lives with to have the best life they can have, and does what he can, when he can, to help them along their way. I want to be the man my wife thinks I am.
I have far to go, but at least for today, I'm joyful where I am.
You folks have a great day. I know I am.
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MonoVCPHG
New member
I heard what she said. I just don't agree with it. But again, it comes down to thriving as an individual, or just living.
I'm not much for waiting around anymore. Done far too much of that these past years. Now I'm encouraging Tess to get out and meet possible bfs. The yin and yang of this is startling. First she wants to get moving on this. I fall down, cry and cause a scene in Safeway. Okay, that's not really the case. But I was less then happy about this gig.
After the first no-go (possible bf had a girl... sorta), I go, "Cool! Break time. I need to get re-centered." Tess agrees. I feel relieved. All is well-- for like three days. No, Tess isn't pushing to move on, or saying, "Let's get on with this." I am! Me! I don't drink, but I may start, as apparently all of this unfiltered reality is bending my brain into new and funny shapes. Has anyone else experienced this, or am I need of some serious therapy?
Two weeks ago, I barely understood polyamory. Today I feel like a recruiting sergeant. All go, no quit. Monogamy is for sissies.
After the first no-go (possible bf had a girl... sorta), I go, "Cool! Break time. I need to get re-centered." Tess agrees. I feel relieved. All is well-- for like three days. No, Tess isn't pushing to move on, or saying, "Let's get on with this." I am! Me! I don't drink, but I may start, as apparently all of this unfiltered reality is bending my brain into new and funny shapes. Has anyone else experienced this, or am I need of some serious therapy?
Two weeks ago, I barely understood polyamory. Today I feel like a recruiting sergeant. All go, no quit. Monogamy is for sissies.
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I find beer works pretty good (although it's probably irresponsible to advocate it as a substitute for therapy, despite that kind of thing being par for the course in your town).
Beer and lube-- excellent combination.
I wonder if Tess will end up feeling like she created a monster! It's happened before.
IndieSolo
Active member
Derbylicious
New member
As long as you get the required substance in the right end.