Redpepper's journey

redpepper

New member
So other stuff going on;

I wrote on here long ago about a friend of mine that I helped through a big break up. He became close to me and I to him as a result. We have remained friends for years now and he recently got married to a woman he adores and respects. He no longer identifies as poly as with her, his needs are met. I respect him and his choices and am very happy for him. I have found in the last few years that his story is common to many people I have known over the years and it warms my heart that people have gone from hectic lives in poly to quiet and happily simple lives in monogamy, yet have a different and fresh take on relationships as a result. Yay poly philosophy. It really can transfer and create happier mono styled relationships.

I digress;

This friend of mine was also a friend of Mono and has kept his friendship with him. Recently I regained my strength enough to host a monthly pub event to watch the UFC fights (guilty pleasure). I used to go with Mono and his military friends, but after we broke up they all began watching the fights at one of the guys houses. I was disappointed that after years of hosting that only a handful expressed any concern for me and my wellbeing. More didn't respond to my texts and some even de-friended me from their FB accounts. Shameful how men stick together in the face of one of their buddies dis-respecting their woman. I was sickened.

My friend, at the time, decided to also go with the guys to the fights at one of their houses but has remained a close friend of mine. He has been supportive in terms of helping me understand how to do things around the house I now own, helping me with my motorbike and listening to me try and figure out my heart and head etc... I have been grateful for him, but have seen that my asking for help has been wearing thin as he now has a wife and wants to spend all his time with her.

This past week, when I asked if he wanted to go to the fights with me and some new friends he said no. He said that Mono had never done anything to him and that he was going to go where his buddy went.

I was very hurt and triggered. If I had been raped, or beaten up and abused in any other way, would the men I once loved and cherished respond in this way? Does a woman always have to expect that the men in their lives will condone other men's behaviour by ditching women who have been traumatized and used? I believe that it's time men took a stand on cheating. Just as they should with other forms of abusing their power. I feel strongly that the culture of rape, cheating, physical, emotional and mental abuse has to stop. I honestly have not seen it change with the times. If anything, with on line websites that promote deviant behaviours and other forms of behaviour striped of ethical principles and values that things are getting worse before they get better.

Part of me thinks, "fair enough, he is friends with him and why shouldn't he be. Maybe I just need a little break and then I can face that with grace." The other part of me thinks, "What do you mean he didn't do anything to you! He traumatized and abused the woman who you have been calling your best friend of years! How can you possibly think that it is okay to even be seen with him!"

I ended up saying, before we said good bye, "I think you need to find better friends. There are a lot of decent men out there who don't treat women the way he does. You would be doing yourself a favour to find them." We parted with good bye and I wonder if he will ever call again.
 
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redpepper

New member
I have been processing the men I now have in my life. I have drawn some men in that are similarly needy and cowardly as Mono was. Men that don't face the truth about their lives and continue to believe that they are in a position where they should benefit from the privileges they have been given simply because they were born as men. Privileges they don't deserve and have not worked towards. Frankly, I'm often stunned and appalled that they think that I would ever put myself in a position to allow them into my life. Who do they think they are that I would jeopardize my hard earned and awarded freedom from the bullshit flirting and fake attention they want to give.

I find myself entirely done with anyone that doesn't show up and earn a place in my life. If they have nothing to offer but half ass, seen it all before wishes of getting close to me by pulling me into their web of entangled bullshit about themselves then I don't even respond any more. I need proof of respect, helpful solutions to my new found practical dilemmas (this house ownership is baffling sometimes), interesting and stimulating conversation about what I want to talk about sometimes rather than droning on and on about their lives and interests and most of all patience as I process my new found life and situation.

I honestly feel a sense of sympathy for them. I really am worried about the entitlement that some men have when it comes to relationships with women. Women can survive without men quite nicely thank you very much, but men seem to wither away and don't understand that they need to get their act together and GIVE in ways that they just don't seem to get when it comes to women.

Of course this is all based on my own observation and opinion where I sit in this moment in my life. Other people are going to disagree and have a different perspective and that is fine. I actually would welcome some other point of view because in my loneliness, I wonder if I will ever find that I am totally satisfied with any partner ever again due to my eye opening experiences that have left my heart wearily open, but cautious and doubtful.

I am hopeful. I have one man I am keeping my eye on who is close to me and so far I see none of the traits mentioned above. I think there might be men still be out there with what I cannot live without... just hidden from my jaded point of view right now.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
I hope things work out with that one guy. Sorry the others haven't been supportive.
 

redpepper

New member
I haven't been able to write for some time here because, frankly, I am just tired. I come home to my empty house and sleep every day after work and still wake up tired after my naps. I wake up in the morning tired and go to bed tired. Still I carry on and fight it every day. I am hoping that the spring sun and the warm air that is coming, bringing with it blossoms or pink and flowers of yellow will also shine some light on my heart and soul. It is coming slowly. The leaves unfold with new life.

I have gone to the island to visit my parents twice since last spring. Not enough. I can't seem to find the joy in going there as it is steeped with memories and haunts that are unpleasant and confusing.

Last weekend I went with my boy, LB, and my closest and best friend and ex wife. We continue to be close and are closer than ever now that we have deception from someone we love as a common understanding. My co-workers and friends wonder if we will be lovers again, but honestly, friendship/family is stronger than romance in the end it seems and we stick to our boundaries. Besides, I have often thought that romance turns into a friendship of sorts and that is long lasting and just as loving. It seems that for me, sometimes the love and connection is just as strong, just not sexual.

The island was like a dream. I walked around in a daze of memories and had strong dreams at night there that reminded me of the past times of going there with Mono and how we created a feeling of always being together, just the two of us. Or at least I created that feeling anyway. It was one sided.

Probably the hardest was walking through a park we spent time in. The grass was beginning to grow, the leaves returning, the flowers blooming and the bees buzzing. Such a happy little eco-system of loveliness and sadness. We spent our last moments together there last spring, walking in silence, nothing left to say yet having so much to say. If only I understood what it was that consumed him and caused the chaos that I could see in his face when he held my hand for those last moments.

Every day, still, there are moments, hours, of pain and confusion. I still find it hard to believe that someone that had become my right arm in life has deceived me and consequently been ripped from my life. It makes me soften in moments and makes me wonder what it is that I feel the need to yearn for. When I ask myself what it is I want I honestly don't know. I want it all back without the deception and lies. I want the feeling of loving so hard I am willing to turn over my soul and heart to someone in complete trust. I will never have that again. I want to be woken from the nightmare I live daily still and for Mono to tell me that the actual lie is that he is what I thought he was and that all the words he said about loving me and focusing on us and what we could build together were the actual truth. They aren't and I will never hear that... its confusing.

I am confused as to how and why someone would do that to me, or anyone. What is it that draws such evilness out of someone so that it becomes their life. Why didn't he fight it? Why didn't he see that it was all wrong and why does he have no feeling, AT ALL except for his own preservation and maintenance. Its a game he plays... one whereby he has to figure it out in order to self preserve in a world he just doesn't seem to understand at all in any other way than becoming a master of disguise within it. How lonely and sad. Really, my heart goes out to anyone that is like him. I intend to stay well away, but I find it really unbearable to empathize with. I can move on but how does anyone move on from what he has created... other than to lie and deceive more.
 
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redpepper

New member
My ex wife has bought a house down the street from me. She moves in soon with her gf and is all a buzz with happiness and excitement. Its been a long journey for her to achieve this goal and I am so happy for her. I am concerned that our strong bond and connection will be a barrier to me getting to know her illusive gf of 18 months however. We have only met once but my ex talks of her often and I feel as if I have an understanding of who she is. I think it may be a hard transition for all of us and this leaves me expectant of what the results might be. I am breathing through it and intend to do so as they adjust to being together every day after only seeing each other once a week. I am keenly aware that I have to find ways to adjust also and possibly fill my time in other ways. Thankfully its gardening season coming and I will have a lot to do.

I am taking my traffic course for motorbike riding and have a lot to learn on my bike... possibly a new bike. I have trips planned and a full summer of festivals and fun lined up. There has never been a dull moment in my life and that continues regardless of anything else going on. Now I see my full life as a necessity and a positive that I bring to others. There is really no one I know that can top the pace I keep. Anyone who wants to be with me has to keep up. I have found no one yet, so I go my own way and people tag along. ;)
 
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redpepper

New member
My boy has turned into a man, complete with moustache, stinky towels on the bathroom floor and a deep voice that bellows through the house. He is protective of me and I feel my age now as I grow shorter and older before his eyes. I have to wear reading glasses to help him with his homework! The other night he had an email from Mono that left me worried.

I had dropped of the last reminder of him in my life in the form of a box that was becoming a thing of shame for me (I was feeling ashamed that I couldn't conjure up anymore courage than I already had to deal with it somehow). It had lived under my table for months and I was holding on to it out of fear of having to somehow get it to him. I could of thrown it out, but it was filled with memories of his and personal items and even if he has done me wrong, I didn't feel it would be right to get rid of things that I know he valued. I was having anxiety and was re-traumatizing myself by thinking of who I could ask to take it to him for me so one night I went and put it in his truck (he left his spare key behind). I think he had forgotten he told me the areas he and his new gf live because he sent a text saying he found that a bit disconcerting that I had done that and wondered how I knew where his truck was. It wasn't difficult to connect the dots and find his truck and when I did it took less than 10 seconds to open the door, put the box in, lock the door and throw the key inside. I drove away, weight lifted and feeling courageous and free. It was never about what he wanted to see happen to it and everything to do with what made me feel most comfortable. I was satisfied that I had done the right thing by me and ended it there.

Unfortunately I poked the dragon. He seems to of taken it as a sign that its okay to reach out when it isn't. This is my way of reaching out to say it isn't. My boy was angry and concerned and felt the need to find a way to protect me. He is worried that Mono is going to hurt me more and as he has seen me at my most fragile he never wants to see me that way again. Now that he is growing older he is beginning to show signs that he needs to look after me and while I appreciate that about him, I am glad he talked to me about it because I don't want him to think he has to do that. He is my child, he needs to feel that I am in control of my life and his until he is fully grown and not a minor anymore. We talked about it and I feel he sees that I am fine and that he doesn't have to do anything about our situation. I will handle it. Any and all emails are to be forwarded to me. All correspondence to other family members I have asked to know about and I have asked that under no circumstance is any of my family to pass on information about our lives. We had a group family meeting and I again feel safe enough. I now wait until the trauma passes and work hard in therapy at creating something positive out of the last years that have left a scare on the course of my life.
 
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redpepper

New member
I have had someone in my life now for 6 months. I have been cautious about talking about this man but I feel prepared to share more about him now. He has been single for over ten years and has kept himself busy working (driving truck) and attempting to get time with his son. He has fought with the boys mother since the time she found she was pregnant and announced she didn't love him, need him or want him in HER child's life. This situation lead to his own amount of damage and struggle in life and it has meant a complete lack of trust of women and just about anyone else that isn't family.

He comes from a large Chinese Canadian family that has been very welcoming of me and my son. They are happy to see my bf has found someone that is willing to stand by him regardless of his mistrust and fight for the values that show I am real and willing to put effort into something solid. I am welcoming them into my life and have found that new connections are building with some of his siblings and his mother. I especially have become attached to his boy. :)

What do we have in common? Family is most important. He is becoming my family and I his. Our kids are most important... his boy is a year younger than mine almost to the day. Integrity and honesty are most important; if we do something that we find hard to tell each other then chances are we shouldn't be doing it. He has had no history of cheating, affairs, one night stands, involving himself in anything that is untoward or frowned upon by anyone. He is a straight up good guy with, from what I can tell, a flawless past based on hard work and family values. I admire this and have been enjoying sinking into a form of love I have never thought would be attractive before.... one that I feel I can trust and rely on into the future. No more bad guys with their fucked up lives. I am all over this new perspective of this good guy getting the best that I have to offer.

So, poly. Well,,, this is an issue, as you can imagine, with this new man in my life. He shudders at the thought of it and as I am and always will be unable to love only one, I am finding it hard to convince him that he has no need to fear, I will be faithful and focused completely on building a life that involves only him romantically. I have no need or desire to add lovers to my life while I am with him but it is highly important that he understand that I will not be willing to change who I am. I continue to meet friends, make new ones and build close and connected relationships with everyone around me just as I always have, without the added pressure and frankly, burden, of the friendships going anywhere that I don't want it to go. I am active and social in my local poly community still and don't intend to change that. I need to be where my people are at and my people, me dating them or not, are most often, poly people. I continue to run the Women's group I have run for 7 years now, as a thriving and growing group of poly women and continue to attend events around town.

As usual, nothing is set in stone and life changes and grows as do I. I am finding that being loved by someone is healing and nurturing and that not being on the relationship escalator is suiting where both of us are at. Remaining true to myself while offering reassurance and being my giving and loving self is creating a wonderful new relationship and paving a new path. Lots more to come on this journey.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Glad to hear about the new guy, he sounds like a good egg.
 

Vinccenzo

New member
I'm always wary of people who experience a bad personal interaction and then struggle to not see everyone else superficially similar as a threat. Example: bad experience with ethnicity/gender/orientation causes suspicion of all others of that ethnicity/gender/orientation as individuals. It lends to the possibility that they always saw that ethnicity/gender/orientation as the enemy to begin with and their personal bad experience just gave their prejudice validity.
 

redpepper

New member
I'm always wary of people who experience a bad personal interaction and then struggle to not see everyone else superficially similar as a threat. Example: bad experience with ethnicity/gender/orientation causes suspicion of all others of that ethnicity/gender/orientation as individuals. It lends to the possibility that they always saw that ethnicity/gender/orientation as the enemy to begin with and their personal bad experience just gave their prejudice validity.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.... could you elaborate please? thanks. ☺
 

Vinccenzo

New member
Sure. You said his experiences have left him with "a complete lack of trust for women" rather than say.....wariness of relationships, lack of faith in one's judgment, or even simply trust issues. I get being relationship shy but to specify a gender for why one is wary suggests a group of people become one entity and all have a negative attribute. It also absolves him of responsibility in the breaking down of a relationship. It wasn't him at all; it was the woman.

When we decide to other a person, to not see them as an individual but rather an ethnicity, gender, or orientation something happens to us. We stop being able to see the contradictions to this new opinion and only feel comfortable around the people who will end up supporting our belief. Its a set up. And look at this guy - he doesn't trust women so he gets involved with one that has values he can later look to as excuses for not trusting her. I'm not saying you are untrustworthy. I'm saying to a mono minded person with little exposure to poly, you are a wild card of potential heartache and drama. He has every reason to feel comforted in the suspicion you will prove him right at some point.

Its nice that you want to assure him you're not like all those other women, but that all those other women are alike is an illusion to begin with. I've watched (and made the mistake myself) a lot of time get wasted trying to convince someone you're not like all the others only to later realize you forgot that you deserved someone proving a thing or two to your heart but you made all these excuses for them and their wounds rather than whether or not they are who you should be with. Don't forget self love, the assurances you need and what else there is to bond over than that you've both been betrayed.
 

River

Active member
When we decide to other a person, to not see them as an individual but rather an ethnicity, gender, or orientation something happens to us. We stop being able to see the contradictions to this new opinion and only feel comfortable around the people who will end up supporting our belief.

I had a brief email exchange recently with a woman who, upon realizing I'm bi- (-sexual, -amorous) immediately told me that she had a just terrible, awful break up with a former boyfriend who was bi-. I explained that it felt as if she was lumping all of us bi folk into one single lump: "bi- men are crap" because of her experience with this bi- man. (Side note. I think "bi" should always be followed by an apostrophe, to indicate that not all bisexuals are also biamorous, and vice versa. But that's another story.) She said she wasn't really wanting to lump us all together, but my assurances were of no use, as she immediately stopped communicating with me. (We "met" on OkCupid.)

The thing to do in such cases is bring up eye and hair color -- which I actually did. I said to her that I have had two terrible break ups with rude and insensitive men and women who were brunettes. :D I think she may not have gotten my point.
 

redpepper

New member
Sure. You said his experiences have left him with "a complete lack of trust for women" rather than say.....wariness of relationships, lack of faith in one's judgment, or even simply trust issues. I get being relationship shy but to specify a gender for why one is wary suggests a group of people become one entity and all have a negative attribute. It also absolves him of responsibility in the breaking down of a relationship. It wasn't him at all; it was the woman.

When we decide to other a person, to not see them as an individual but rather an ethnicity, gender, or orientation something happens to us. We stop being able to see the contradictions to this new opinion and only feel comfortable around the people who will end up supporting our belief. Its a set up. And look at this guy - he doesn't trust women so he gets involved with one that has values he can later look to as excuses for not trusting her. I'm not saying you are untrustworthy. I'm saying to a mono minded person with little exposure to poly, you are a wild card of potential heartache and drama. He has every reason to feel comforted in the suspicion you will prove him right at some point.

Its nice that you want to assure him you're not like all those other women, but that all those other women are alike is an illusion to begin with. I've watched (and made the mistake myself) a lot of time get wasted trying to convince someone you're not like all the others only to later realize you forgot that you deserved someone proving a thing or two to your heart but you made all these excuses for them and their wounds rather than whether or not they are who you should be with. Don't forget self love, the assurances you need and what else there is to bond over than that you've both been betrayed.
I really like your point here. I understand more clearly now. Thank you.

I asked him about this and he said he believed at one point that all women would do him wrong. Almost as a reactionary thing. His sister says he had a chip on his shoulder and he agrees. He had an accident earlier this year that left him re-thinking his beliefs and came to the conclusion that he would be alone forever if he didn't decide to trust again. Trust anyone really... and so began his process and journey back to trust and believing that everyone is going to bring different things to his relationships.

My roll, so far, has been to be a soft place to start. It's a soft place for both of us. He pushes and challenges me but I hand it right back to him. I am not interested in proving him wrong or right, nor am I going to accept his anger as anything other than directed at someone else. I continue to do what I want to do and when he expresses his fear in various ways I challenge him to look at it. He has a hard time understanding but unlike relationships I have had in the passed... I decide how much I am willing to explain and take on. I have shut down a few conversations that could end in his frustration and circular arguing.

I am likely limited in this relationship but I don't care. It serves me right now and until it doesn't anymore I intend to be present, kind, caring and offer him all I have to offer while holding my cards close to my chest.

Hopefully both of us will continue to find gentle loving in each other until such time as we have healed and are ready to move on with renewed strength. Maybe that will be in a short time from now.... maybe not.
 
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redpepper

New member
Sure. You said his experiences have left him with "a complete lack of trust for women" rather than say.....wariness of relationships, lack of faith in one's judgment, or even simply trust issues. I get being relationship shy but to specify a gender for why one is wary suggests a group of people become one entity and all have a negative attribute. It also absolves him of responsibility in the breaking down of a relationship. It wasn't him at all; it was the woman.

When we decide to other a person, to not see them as an individual but rather an ethnicity, gender, or orientation something happens to us. We stop being able to see the contradictions to this new opinion and only feel comfortable around the people who will end up supporting our belief. Its a set up. And look at this guy - he doesn't trust women so he gets involved with one that has values he can later look to as excuses for not trusting her. I'm not saying you are untrustworthy. I'm saying to a mono minded person with little exposure to poly, you are a wild card of potential heartache and drama. He has every reason to feel comforted in the suspicion you will prove him right at some point.

Its nice that you want to assure him you're not like all those other women, but that all those other women are alike is an illusion to begin with. I've watched (and made the mistake myself) a lot of time get wasted trying to convince someone you're not like all the others only to later realize you forgot that you deserved someone proving a thing or two to your heart but you made all these excuses for them and their wounds rather than whether or not they are who you should be with. Don't forget self love, the assurances you need and what else there is to bond over than that you've both been betrayed.
I really like your point here. I understand more clearly now. Thank you.

I asked him about this and he said he believed at one point that all women would do him wrong. Almost as a reactionary thing. His sister says he had a chip on his shoulder and he agrees. He had an accident earlier this year that left him re-thinking his beliefs and came to the conclusion that he would be alone forever if he didn't decide to trust again. Trust anyone really... and so began his process and journey back to trust and believing that everyone is going to bring different things to his relationships.

My roll, so far, has been to be a soft place to start. It's a soft place for both of us. He pushes and challenges me but I hand it right back to him. I am not interested in proving him wrong or right, nor am I going to accept his anger as anything other than directed at someone else. I continue to do what I want to do and when he expresses his fear in various ways I challenge him to look at it. He has a hard time understanding but unlike relationships I have had in the passed... I decide how much I am willing to explain and take on. I have shut down a few conversations that could end in his frustration and circular arguing. I am likely limited in this relationship but I don't care. It serves me right now and until it doesn't anymore I intend to be present, kind, caring and offer him all I have to offer while holding my cards close to my chest.

Hopefully both of us will continue to find gentle loving in each other until such time as we have healed and are ready to move on with renewed strength. Maybe that will be in a short time from now.... maybe not.
 

redpepper

New member
LB finds out about his Dad, PN and his transition to female today. Really having a hard time coping. My coping skills are nil these days. Too much change.
 

CielDuMatin

New member
I would think that this stuff drains all the energy out of you - you try to do your best but it just keeps on coming, without a break. Very hard to deal with, and to do so (for me, at least) a good support structure is really helpful.
 

redpepper

New member
It's been since June folks and over a year since I kicked Mono out of my life. Soon it will be a year that PN left and then a year she started her journey to womanhood. A year since I have been in my own world in my house that revolves around me. It will be a year since I bought the house, a year of facing my alone demons.

I haven't had a lot of poly to talk about. Just poly survival stuff... namely; when people have told me to deal with my jealousy, to look at my self esteem, to look at where my control issues are it has all been bullshit. All because they, along with myself, were fed the rhetoric kool-aid that came along with poly and how to live the lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with being jealous; listen to whats behind it, maybe its time to leave because the relationship is dying. There is nothing wrong with having self esteem issues; maybe its been too much of a push and one that takes you away from who you really are, who you love yourself to be. There is nothing wrong with wanting control; wanting and needing control indicates to me that someone else has control and that they are calling the shots. Needing control can also mean that someone is inflicting something on you that isn't working for you.

Really, I am no different than anyone else who has poly caught in their throat trying to force it in and is just done with the whole situation they have found themselves in and don't know what to do. I should of left, walked away, RAN! There is nothing wrong with me, there never was. The shit was hitting the fan and I should of ended all of it long before i did and would of had I of had the information of Mono's immense amount of cheating.

Yes, I am still very hurt and angry. I doubt very much that will end any time soon. I was never cut out to be poly in action, only in heart. I am too emotional and empathetic to deal with it. My skin is not as thick and I love deeper than most. That caused major damage and was fodder for abuse of who I am. Anyone who was who I chose to love should be grateful for that love. They should feel honoured. Especially as I will likely never love that way again. That pure love I felt for others is gone. I feel it for no one now. I have lost what made me special. I am now humdrum and a walking shell of what I once was. There is no reason to love me or expect love in return because I don't exist anymore. At least not where I am willing to show it.

I am unable to consider that people have my best interest in mind when they make decisions. Really, everyone is out for themselves. When I found myself in a situation where I was doing well in poly for many, many years, there was always the consideration that things change and rather than getting out when I could and was less invested I decided to invest more, call people I love "family," trust deeper, have more faith. This was so wrong. It was a time to retreat and look after myself, keep them at arms length.

I spoke here about how well it works and how poly can benefit by deepening trust and responsibility to one another. Create deeper commitment when really there was less and in Mono's case, none. It was an illusion. An illusion built on bullshit and lies.

The balance of poly family life is very precarious and there are false illusions of stability. Nothing is stable, nothing can be because its all changing. If you can't go with the change and if people don't speak to that change WHEN it happens, you have NOTHING. Absolutely NO foundation.

Poly must allow for change, poly must allow for expansion, poly must allow for honesty to oneself and others. Poly must never be the centre of my world again. I! am the centre of my world. Investing everything into my relationships as poly was foolish and naive. It was not safe and not responsible to myself. Poly is not what should be invested in just to say you're poly. Relationships, as they are, should be what is invested in.

There is no formula, no book, no mantra to yell... there is only one person and another in relationship. Anyone outside of that is another one person and relationship. That is it. That is all I learned. Poly is as big an illusion as life itself.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
I suppose we do get caught up in the idea that if we adhere to certain well-known poly "rules" or principles, all will be well. Your experience has shown that such is not the case. You can be doing everything "right" and still lose it all.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. :(
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
Damn cheaters.
 
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